Arthur P - I thought you posted how archery was all about the challenge ? And now you suggest using the easiest and more accurate weapos in componds instead of crossbows ?

Why not just let guys shoot whatever bows they choose in Archery season. Why is that so difficult a concept ? Unless you're a die hard traditional bowhunter who despises compound along with crossbows, theres a double standard there without a doubt. The modern compound is THE #1 choice of bowhunters for a reason guys - they're more accurate and simply better weapons to kill deer with than any other choice of bows - crossbows included. When the realization sets in that a crossbow isn't near the machine that a modern compound is - how in the world can you NOT see that they belong in archery season perhaps evern more so than compounds do based on their limitations and just how far compounds have come in the past 5 years ?

Personally, I do not care WHAT bow you choose to use and I'd like it very much if you didn't try to regulate what choices I make either unless it effects the deer seasons or deer herds of hunting ina negative way.

And not one single post that shows the crossbows do that, is there ?

Alright stealthy, where were all these new bowhunters prior to the legalization of crossbows, talking specifically in my home state of Georgia? They were certainly not hunting in archery season. Why not? At many NBEF courses I hear the same reasons from new crossbowers "compounds are too hard and do not shoot far enough out."

If compounds are as easy as you say, why didn't they just jump right into archery season? Because they did not have the dedication to bowhunting. That's right, they waited, asked for, and got the easiest way out and jumped right in.

On another note, when crossbows were legalized the state of Georgia reduced the archery season by one week. Tell me again why I should not dislike crossbows?????

The fact is as bowhunters we need all the help we can get and as many in our ranks as we can muster for political reasons. Having said that, I know of many "new" buwhunters that have contacted their legislators to have the seasonal restrictions removed since xbows were not their cup of tea....... What they found out is that Crossbows were not some mythical, magical, 150 yard killing machine and now they are dissatisfied. However, they have also found that the early season can be a great time to kill deer as they are a little easier to pattern.

The battle in GA is coming where we as bowhunters will have to stand up for our archery season, and we have many within our ranks, as perceived by the idiots at the Golden Dome, that are all for eliminating archery season. I have already had one state rep tell me personally that he has heard from a few bowhunters that want the archery season eliminated. When asked what type of bow do they shoot? He informed me they shot crossbows.

PS, go back to stealthy, you are flat out confusing everyone but VC.

Dang, man! Whaddya want? Your point was that people who aren't dedicated archers should shoot whatever is easiest to use. You posted the difference in scores between compounds and crossbows. Since compounds consistently score higher, then if the unwashed masses are going to bowhunt then they should use compounds. I agree with the principle you brought up and now you're trying to ream me for it?? If you made a bad point that doesn't support your stance, it's not MY fault. [8D]

I have nothing against guys shooting whatever BOWS they choose in Achery season. But crossbows ain't bows, I don't care who's dictionary you whip out.

You say crossbows use a bow to power it's projectile, therefore they are bows. That's like saying since a bicycle has a frame and two wheels, and since a Harley also has a frame and two wheels, then a Harley is a bicycle and should be allowed to run in the Tour de France.

Hmmm.... come to think of it, a compound has a frame and two wheels....[:-]

ArthurP,

This is the first post I have gotten to and I will address this one first before I move on. I haven't seen anyone here proposing the ban of traditional equipment or I would be right here with you. I am not so self righteous that I believe that I have the right to determine for anyone else how they should hunt. But you can bet I will stand up for the trads or any other group that is being threatened. But can you qoute some examples of the lies or incomplete truths that I have posted?

I have no problem with kids, people with a medical condition, or for that matter any decent / responsible individual shooting a crossbow.

I'm from Ohio and personally know people that shoot crossbows. All of the guys that I personally know that use them would have nothing to do with archery if it weren't for the xbow. They would stick to Muzzle Loader and Gun season exclusively, which would be fine with me. Don't get me wrong I really don't have a problem with the weapon itself, but rather the behavior it promotes. The behavior I'm talking about is the "I just dusted her off this morning, hope she’s' still sighted in from last year" or the "Were gonna sit in camp and get drunk then go out and shoot us a deer." or the " I don't know why you guys wasted all your time practicing with those compounds all year when you could just get one of these."

I'm not saying every crossbow hunter is like this, but the guys I know that shoot them are. And I'm not saying that their idiot proof simple to shoot (I don't know I've never shot one) I'm just saying I think the people that I know that use them are in it for the wrong reasons and I would rather not put up with them.

At the same time, I presume, you're implying that I am self righteous and determining for everyone else how they should hunt? No. I'm exercising my right of free speech and expressing my deep, strongly felt conviction on this issue. Directing such insults as that toward me will do little more than strengthen my conviction that I'm right.

As to the traditional thing...

You say you haven't seen anyone proposing banning traditional on this thread. You've darn sure seen the kind of crap that can be used to get it banned. This 'trads can't hit anything at the 3D shoots so they shouldn't be allowed in the woods' line is one of the main things the anti-trad crossbow faction I was monitoring on the net are putting high priority on getting out on the forums. Then, all they have to do is get it repeated enough without anybody attacking it, and BINGO. It magically becomes incontrovertable truth in the eyes of the ignorant and the majority decides trad needs to be banned. And brother, there's a tub full of ignorance on a lot of these forums.

You didn't call the guys who made those comments to account. In my opinion, that makes you, and all the others who haven't done so, complicit in the demonization of traditional shooters, by default. Now do you understand my comment?

Where were all the compounders prior to them being legal ?

I dunno - ask them. But it got more hunters into the woods - does it matter that its a crossbow that did it ? Can you show me how this is a bad thing ?

Show me that legalizatio nof crossbows was the direct reason for this. Arkansas lost 2 weeks of archery season this year - but crossbows didnt do it.

Want me to create a reylamb jr. ? LOL

No, actually, it would be like comparing an old 1950's stlye bicycle and the one Lance won the Tour with this year - radically different bikes - but both bicycles. With your example, the Harley added a gasoline engine - completely changing how the bicylce is propelled.


So, the whole crux of your argument is that a crossbow isn't a crossbow - right ? Even though I proved that it is, right ? Seems more and more guys are starting to realize that if guys want to use crossbows - big deal. Look how this thread has went Arthur P - remember 3-4 years ago a thread like this would be full of rabid anti-crossbowers. Today ? Many more guys stepping up saying hey, my state legalized crossbows, they didn't destroy anything, or hey, shoot what you want to as long as its a bow - it doesn't affect me and hey, we NEED more hunters, more bowhunter - allow them.

Tides are changing. If a specialized mtn rifle with a big ole Swarovski laser range finding scope capable of shooting 1000 yards is allowed in rifle season and considered a rifle, if a stainles steel, synthetic stocked gun loaded with 150 grains of pellets, shooting a sabot with rifle type velocity and accuracy out to 300 yards (topped with scope of course) is a muzzleloader and allowed in muzzleloader season, then surly its not difficult to see that a crossbow is a bow, its not advantageous really in a hunting situation and should be allowed in archery season if someone wants to use one ?

kodiak41226 - Almost every compounder I know wouldn't archery hunt if they had to learn to shoot a recurve/longbow. Your point was ??????


Straight up - I can go to a 3D shoot and probably finish in the top 10% of trad shooters. I aint a bad shot with my longbows/recurves (struggled lately though). I shot a few 3D shoots this summer - I shoot with my buddies, talk with a lot of guys, read a lot of trad thread, on trad sites .......... I know just how inaccurate trad shooting can be from my shooting to others. There is NO comparison - none at all, to the accuracy of a modern compound and crossbows to recures/longbows. If ya'll want to talk ethics then yeah, lets first talk about recurves/longbows then we'll go right into all the threads on this site "lost another one" or "drew blood". The crossbow debate has NOTHING to do with archery ethics.

Whats yours? I not sure what you are talking about. Longbow, recurve?

Quiz:

Bring the weapon's stock to the shoulder, acquire target though the scope, flip off safety, squeeze trigger. I describing the firing sequence of what weapon? A. Rifle B. Slug gun C. In-line Muzzleloader D. Crossbow E. All the above

Correct answer is E. All the above.

Once you add a shoulder stock, telescopic or red dot sights and cocked-and-locked ready feature, no matter the power source for the projectile, no matter the effective range, you're not shooting a bow any more.

Am I to understand then, that you are also saying that traditional shooters should not be allowed in the woods. I definitely want a clarification from you on that point.

Tell me... How many of those shots at the 3D shoots you've attended have been shots you would have actually taken in the woods, under actual hunting conditions? At the shoots I've attended, I'd say only about 50% were within my effective range. The others? That's where I learn my limitations.

Better keep a close eye on the poop you pump. PETA is watching and reading and bowhunting is square in their sights. You reckon a compound or crossbow can match the accuracy of a good .270 at 100 yards? Same difference as comparing the accuracy of crossbows or compounds with tradtional bows at 40 yards. In the near future, you might well be having to fight down your own stupid argument for the survival of bowhunting.

That would be correct.

I am all for you having an opinion and I am all for you expressing it. However, when your opinion is based on selfish values and threatens the rights of other hunters I have a porblem with it. It's one thing to express opposing views but to support laws that ban a type of hunting, well I just think that's foolish and dangerous.

Arthur,

I think you have been watching too much conspiracy theory. I haven't seen this movement as you see it. However, I wouldn't jump in a conversation about people saying the trads can't hit anything at 3D shoots etc. for one because I don't know if that's true or not. I haven't been to a 3D shoot in a few years and haven't shot with any trad shooters in much longer than that so it would be hard to argue something that I do not know the merits of. For two those people are expressing opinions on a particular type of equipment which I have no problem with (even yours) as long as it doesn't suggest laws that could potentially hurt the sport.

I don't think anyone's arguing with you there

See the above response.........................but to answer your question, NO.