A friend of mine is in trouble.
11-04-2004, 07:34 AM
#41
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: North Texas
Posts: 932
RE: A friend of mine is in trouble.
but he had to know the laws about "Earn a Buck". YUP, he's in trouble and he knew it could happen. IF you're going to set yourself aside from the laws that everyone else has to follow.... you have to be ready to accept the penalties.
11-04-2004, 08:01 AM
#42
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location:
Posts: 326
RE: A friend of mine is in trouble.
A number of people here have stated that he must have known. I clearly stated that he did not know. That's what he told me and I believe him. I think I'd be a better judge of that, given that I'm the only one here that has met him.
Regardless of whether or not he knew, I didn't post here looking for a critique on ethics and a lecture on reading the regs. I suggested the same in the very first sentence of the thread. I'm sure he's learned that lesson. Perhaps as a result of this thread, others will avoid the same mistake. However, I did post here looking for advice on how to fight the charges and more importantly, if anyone has faced similar charges, how they approached defense in court, and what was the outcome.
Thanks.
Regardless of whether or not he knew, I didn't post here looking for a critique on ethics and a lecture on reading the regs. I suggested the same in the very first sentence of the thread. I'm sure he's learned that lesson. Perhaps as a result of this thread, others will avoid the same mistake. However, I did post here looking for advice on how to fight the charges and more importantly, if anyone has faced similar charges, how they approached defense in court, and what was the outcome.
Thanks.
11-04-2004, 08:40 AM
#43
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: North Lima Ohio & Clarion Pa
Posts: 6,453
RE: A friend of mine is in trouble.
Ok then here is the advice I give..plead guilty and throw yourself on the mercy of the court.
Bet your glad you posted this huh?
[:'(]
PS I'm amazed at the number of people that are amazed
Bet your glad you posted this huh?
[:'(]PS I'm amazed at the number of people that are amazed
11-04-2004, 08:41 AM
#44
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 216
RE: A friend of mine is in trouble.
Baggin,
I have read this thread over the past couple days with interest and dismay.
I am a lawyer in Nebraska so naturally I was interested. Yes, your friend needs a lawyer to present his case. I have represented only a few defendants involved with charges of violating game laws, but have represented many criminal defendants. Although ignorance of a law or ordinance is not a valid defense, it can be very useful in negotiating a plea arrangement and particularly helpful if and when sentencing occurs. Have your friend find a good criminal defense attorney, it will be money well spent.
My dismay involves the tone of some of the responses. The easiest thing in the world is to criticize. It takes a bigger and better person to objectively respond to your valid post. Good luck to you and your friend. I hope your laudable goal of preventing others from making honest mistakes comes to fruition.
I have read this thread over the past couple days with interest and dismay.
I am a lawyer in Nebraska so naturally I was interested. Yes, your friend needs a lawyer to present his case. I have represented only a few defendants involved with charges of violating game laws, but have represented many criminal defendants. Although ignorance of a law or ordinance is not a valid defense, it can be very useful in negotiating a plea arrangement and particularly helpful if and when sentencing occurs. Have your friend find a good criminal defense attorney, it will be money well spent.
My dismay involves the tone of some of the responses. The easiest thing in the world is to criticize. It takes a bigger and better person to objectively respond to your valid post. Good luck to you and your friend. I hope your laudable goal of preventing others from making honest mistakes comes to fruition.
11-04-2004, 09:06 AM
#45
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chenango County, NY
Posts: 224
RE: A friend of mine is in trouble.
I've been thinking over the past day or so about this post, and I think wideone sums it up well. While a lawyer may not be able to get your friend off the hook, they will at least have a lot of experience in bargaining for sentence. Perhaps, if your friend were to plead guilty, a good laywer could bargain his sentence down to something reasonable and fair.
Good luck to your friend. And let us all know how it turns out. I for one am interested in how it is handled by the state.
Good luck to your friend. And let us all know how it turns out. I for one am interested in how it is handled by the state.
11-04-2004, 09:28 AM
#46
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: A friend of mine is in trouble.
ORIGINAL: wideone
Baggin,
I have read this thread over the past couple days with interest and dismay.
I am a lawyer in Nebraska so naturally I was interested. Yes, your friend needs a lawyer to present his case. I have represented only a few defendants involved with charges of violating game laws, but have represented many criminal defendants. Although ignorance of a law or ordinance is not a valid defense, it can be very useful in negotiating a plea arrangement and particularly helpful if and when sentencing occurs. Have your friend find a good criminal defense attorney, it will be money well spent.
My dismay involves the tone of some of the responses. The easiest thing in the world is to criticize. It takes a bigger and better person to objectively respond to your valid post. Good luck to you and your friend. I hope your laudable goal of preventing others from making honest mistakes comes to fruition.
Baggin,
I have read this thread over the past couple days with interest and dismay.
I am a lawyer in Nebraska so naturally I was interested. Yes, your friend needs a lawyer to present his case. I have represented only a few defendants involved with charges of violating game laws, but have represented many criminal defendants. Although ignorance of a law or ordinance is not a valid defense, it can be very useful in negotiating a plea arrangement and particularly helpful if and when sentencing occurs. Have your friend find a good criminal defense attorney, it will be money well spent.
My dismay involves the tone of some of the responses. The easiest thing in the world is to criticize. It takes a bigger and better person to objectively respond to your valid post. Good luck to you and your friend. I hope your laudable goal of preventing others from making honest mistakes comes to fruition.
Thank you wideone.
11-04-2004, 09:36 AM
#47
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location:
Posts: 326
Thanks WideOne
WideOne,
Thanks for your input on this matter. This is exactly the type of analysis that I was hoping for here. I was thinking that the ignorance argument would be futile, but perhaps it will have some merit in the courtroom when the penalty is being considered. While it is possible that my friend will become an "example" to others, perhaps a sympathetic judge will be less harsh.
While I have your attention, perhaps you can address some other questions?
1) Since he has not yet been charged, is it legal for him to purchase a gun deer license and participate in the firearm season in WI (at least prior to any conviction)?
2) Will this affect his right to hunt in other states, either this year or in following years, pre/post-conviction?
3) Is he still allowed to target shoot with his back-up bow?
Any input would be appreciated.
__________________________________________________ ____________
This thread has progressed the way I expected. I figured at the very least someone may think twice about bending the law. I'll take the good with the bad. Thanks for contributing to the good.
Thanks for your input on this matter. This is exactly the type of analysis that I was hoping for here. I was thinking that the ignorance argument would be futile, but perhaps it will have some merit in the courtroom when the penalty is being considered. While it is possible that my friend will become an "example" to others, perhaps a sympathetic judge will be less harsh.
While I have your attention, perhaps you can address some other questions?
1) Since he has not yet been charged, is it legal for him to purchase a gun deer license and participate in the firearm season in WI (at least prior to any conviction)?
2) Will this affect his right to hunt in other states, either this year or in following years, pre/post-conviction?
3) Is he still allowed to target shoot with his back-up bow?
Any input would be appreciated.
__________________________________________________ ____________
My dismay involves the tone of some of the responses. The easiest thing in the world is to criticize. It takes a bigger and better person to objectively respond to your valid post. Good luck to you and your friend. I hope your laudable goal of preventing others from making honest mistakes comes to fruition.
11-04-2004, 10:08 AM
#48
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: Thanks WideOne
I have been witness to a few tangles with the law on rediculously stupid levels in my days.
The day I killed my very first deer......a doe with shotgun. I was happy as hell and dragged her out to the truck to show my dad and brothers. My oldest brother also had a doe that he killed that morning........we were off to a nice start. A DEC officer pulls up and gets out to look at the deer. He says "nice doe" and I tell him it's my first and he says "good job" and walks over to my brother's deer. I can see my brother is acting weird and when I look down I realize why........he forgot to bring a pen with him and so his tag was not filled out. Of all the luck. We see a DEC officer about once every 10 years and it had to to be that day. Well a $50 ticket later it was a lesson learned the hard way.
We are the most law abiding hunters on the planet. My father taught us laws, regs, ethics etc.........are just as if not more important then hunting itself. Do it right or don't do it........PERIOD.
But to that DEC officer on that day my brother and my family in general probably looked like a shadey group of guys trying to get away with taking a doe home and saving a tag for another day.
Perceptions on single events can be VERY misleading.
Having said all that............your friend doesn't look good based on this one isolated event. Whether or not he is a straight arrow or someone who consistently makes his own rules really doesn't matter. Everyone cries they never did this before or they didn't know..........when they get caught.
All he can do now is tell the truth and let his lawyer try to keep his penalty minimal. He may not want to spend money on a lawyer but he should if he values his hunting privlidges. Not to mention that going in without a lawyer makes him look like he doesn't take it seriously.
He screwed up bad..............his best hope now is leniency. Deserved or not.
I bet he will read the regs from now on. Even if it means driving somewhere else to get them. Assuming about legal issues is never a good idea.
If he is a good guy like you say he is that just made a dumb mistake then I wish him the best of luck in keeping his hunting privlidges. If he is a dirt bud that thinks he can do whatever he wants and not get caught I hope they string him up by his nads.
That is for the courts to decide now.
GET A LAWYER
The day I killed my very first deer......a doe with shotgun. I was happy as hell and dragged her out to the truck to show my dad and brothers. My oldest brother also had a doe that he killed that morning........we were off to a nice start. A DEC officer pulls up and gets out to look at the deer. He says "nice doe" and I tell him it's my first and he says "good job" and walks over to my brother's deer. I can see my brother is acting weird and when I look down I realize why........he forgot to bring a pen with him and so his tag was not filled out. Of all the luck. We see a DEC officer about once every 10 years and it had to to be that day. Well a $50 ticket later it was a lesson learned the hard way.
We are the most law abiding hunters on the planet. My father taught us laws, regs, ethics etc.........are just as if not more important then hunting itself. Do it right or don't do it........PERIOD.
But to that DEC officer on that day my brother and my family in general probably looked like a shadey group of guys trying to get away with taking a doe home and saving a tag for another day.
Perceptions on single events can be VERY misleading.
Having said all that............your friend doesn't look good based on this one isolated event. Whether or not he is a straight arrow or someone who consistently makes his own rules really doesn't matter. Everyone cries they never did this before or they didn't know..........when they get caught.
All he can do now is tell the truth and let his lawyer try to keep his penalty minimal. He may not want to spend money on a lawyer but he should if he values his hunting privlidges. Not to mention that going in without a lawyer makes him look like he doesn't take it seriously.
He screwed up bad..............his best hope now is leniency. Deserved or not.
I bet he will read the regs from now on. Even if it means driving somewhere else to get them. Assuming about legal issues is never a good idea.
If he is a good guy like you say he is that just made a dumb mistake then I wish him the best of luck in keeping his hunting privlidges. If he is a dirt bud that thinks he can do whatever he wants and not get caught I hope they string him up by his nads.
That is for the courts to decide now.
GET A LAWYER
11-04-2004, 11:47 AM
#49
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Modena Wi
Posts: 1,444
RE: Thanks WideOne
As a lifelong wisconsin resident and hunter I believe your friend has no one but his self to blame for his mess and should consider himself lucky for any reduction in fines or penalties. Your convinced your buddy had no knowledge of the changes in the law so I am led to believe he just woke from a long coma or lives in a vacume. Whether or not he was aware of the law is a moot point anyway because HE is responsible for knowing it. I hunt in EAB area this year and had to pass on some nice bucks till I earned my tag. No sympathy here...........dabow
11-04-2004, 12:03 PM
#50
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 216
RE: A friend of mine is in trouble.
Baggin,
I wish I could be more helpful on the specific questions you pose. However, the game laws are governed by each individual state, and I would only be guessing about your particular state's laws. I would have your friend find a local attorney and pose those same questions to him/her. Sorry I can't help any further on those issues.
I wish I could be more helpful on the specific questions you pose. However, the game laws are governed by each individual state, and I would only be guessing about your particular state's laws. I would have your friend find a local attorney and pose those same questions to him/her. Sorry I can't help any further on those issues.