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RE: Pope and Young. . . should they count?
 

My feeling is that they should allow any bow kill.But put it in different cat.like have one for the 65%,70-75%,80% and then a place for crossbows for the handicapped. The times have changed,they should also change to some degree

RE: Pope and Young. . . should they count?
 

I agree with huntfliinger00


I just updated my website. Go check it out. I have big bucks, paintings, my drawings and more. Sign the guestbook while there.

www.geocities.com/mvp_bballer/

JC

RE: Pope and Young. . . should they count?
 

nope, its a private club with there own rules! Ya wanna join play by the rules!

RE: Pope and Young. . . should they count?
 

I don't care.

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RE: Pope and Young. . . should they count?
 

I agree with the last 3 posters. If they see no problem with it, why change it? I choose not to be a part of it.

Edited by - 6ptsika on 02/28/2002 11:55:44

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RE: Pope and Young. . . should they count?
 

I agree, Pope & Young is a private club. They make their own rules, as it should be with a private organization!
My new bow has 75% let-off, so if I ever bag a P&Y buck, it won't qualify! Will it be any less of a trophy? No! Will I be any less proud of it? NO!
Maybe they will change their rules in the future. In the mean time, its their club and their rules. If you want in, you have to play by their standards!

RE: Pope and Young. . . should they count?
 

THEN THEY SHOULDN'T ALLOW ANY BOWS THAT HAVE ADJUSTABLE LET-OFFS EITHER! YOU COULD SHOOT A DEER SET ON 80 AND CHANGE IT TO 65 BEFORE TRYING TO GET IN THE BOOKS!JMO

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RE: Pope and Young. . . should they count?
 

I would bet you there are several deer listed in their record book that were killed with 75% and 80% letoff. I have one in there that was killed with a Bear Magnum Hunter-45% letoff. When I filled the application out they only asked what kind of bow was used and what % letoff. They don't ask for any proof, just your word, and you think that everyone listed in the records was honest about it then I have a floating island I'd like to sell you. Good hunting.

RE: Pope and Young. . . should they count?
 

I agree with frank. Getting your buck in P&Y doesn't make it any more or less of a trophy. I personally got a bow with 65% but the chances of me getting a buck that would qualify are slim. but i doubt i will put it in even if i do get one.

RE: Pope and Young. . . should they count?
 

All of you guys who think they shuld change the rules to let the +65% letoff into the books should start your own "private club". I want to get into bowhunting this next year and I could care less if my buck gets into the "book". Maybe once I start hunting with a bow I'll cahnge my mind and maybe there will be enough guys to initiate a private group honoring bucks over the 65% letoff rule. Who knows?

RE: Pope and Young. . . should they count?
 

Play by their rules or do not play at all.. On a side lite.....what is the minimum score that a deer must achieve to be enterd in the p&Y books?

RE: Pope and Young. . . should they count?
 

The 65% let off rule is the rule that the club set many years ago, so they have every right to adhere to that rule if they want to. Personally I think that it wouldn't hurt anything to change it because any deer with a bow is a trophy and truthfully, that extra 5-15% let off really doesn't make that kill a whole lot easier or make the hunt for that animal any different. But as I said ,that is the cutoff in letoff that they set so they can stick with it if they choose. I killed a P & Y buck about 4 years ago with a legal 65% letoff and still didn't enter it in the P & Y record book. All you get is a line in little letters in the book and a piece of paper with the measurements. Big Deal. That is more of an ego thing really. Man I am just as proud of that trophy whether it was in the book or not. It really doesn't matter. I am proud of all my bowkills. That competing against others and just going to get your name in a book isn't for me. Man, I just love to bowhunt and cherish my time in the stand. No book or award can compete with that.

RE: Pope and Young. . . should they count?
 

I agree with huntflinger22

RE: Pope and Young. . . should they count?
 

How would anyone know if you changed your setup or not? I don't remember a phone in the forest that was a hotline to P&Y, nor do I remember a P&Y checkstation. Obviously the hunter would know.

But again, who cares.

"It's not the kill, it's the thrill of the chase"

RE: Pope and Young. . . should they count?
 

hey Pheonix its 125 for whities....you can look at the P&Y's page on the internet. I do believe you need adobe acrobate 4.0 but its free so there ya go....

http://www.pope-young.org/

RE: Pope and Young. . . should they count?
 

P&Y is a nice club and all, but I believe the become more irrelevent as each day passes. With so much focus on score, rack size whatever, does anybody stop to ask if a buck is P&Y legal? If a guy legitemately shot a typical buck with a bow that scored 210, does anybody care if it was shot with P&Y standards? It's still a world record bow shot whitetail-who's P&Y?

For example, what about a guy that uses an 80% let-off bow, with no sights and fingers, and another guy uses all the gadgets and trinkets, but has 65% let-off. Did the guy with 65% earn it more than the 80% guy?

That's why P&Y becomes more irrelevant as each day passes.

I used a 65% let-off bow last year, and I'll probably use an 80% this year, used 80% for several years before that, and 65 or 50 before that, but to tell you the truth, this is the most I've thought about P&Y ever.

I feel they will eventually wither into a pool of irrelevance, along with pet rocks and hool-a-hoops.

Jeff...U.P. of Michigan.

RE: Pope and Young. . . should they count?
 

The only rule they have that I think needs to be changed is under their rules of fair chase at the bottom in the "special note" paragraph which gives their definition of a hunting bow , "compound bow that is hand-held and is hand-drawn , and that has no mechanical device to enable the hunter to lock the bow at full or partial draw"
This would eliminate handicapped bowhunters who have no choice but to use a bow like mentioned above. And I'm not just talkin about crossbows either , I seen a guy shootin at the range who was born with a deformed arm.He had a bow with a draw lock on it because he had to wedge the bow between his knees to pull it back (all this done with one arm) and he had some type of devise in his mouth that was his release.
Under the current rules he wouldn't qualify for Pope & Young record book.

"Nocked,cocked & ready to rock"

RE: Pope and Young. . . should they count?
 

Ooops! After further review , they do allow the use of a draw-lock for handicapped.
It's on the second page , at least I think they allow it. Heres their paragraph for the handicapped , word for word.

B.Exceptions: physically handicapped bowhunters shall be excepted from the requirements of holding or shooting the bow with their hands.

RE: Pope and Young. . . should they count?
 

Funny thing about Pope and Young fair chase rules. They do allow deer that were taken over bait and chased by dogs and taken by being pushed on a drive. Although I have done this I really would not consider it fair chase.

RE: Pope and Young. . . should they count?
 

NATTY: You say you've done drives and don't consider it fair chase? I think statistics will probably show that more BIG DEER are taken while sitting on our duffs. You might run out some does, a few young bucks and an occasional larger one with a drive. But the Big Boys are usually too smart to fall victim to drives. There are exceptions to every rule of course. ME, I'm a tree guy.

RE: Pope and Young. . . should they count?
 

Depends on the terrain. If you have small woodlots surrounded by huge grain fields and you know there is a trophy buck in there, you can surround the small woodlot with shooters and send someone in to chase out the buck that is totally surrounded.
The world record buck was taken just like this. Is it fair chase?

RE: Pope and Young. . . should they count?
 

IMO.... yes. Just as much as finding out where he sleeps, eats and travels and sitting an waiting him out. If you declare it not fair chase a whole lot more things come under scrutiny. Did the bird hunter chase him to you accidently? Is that fair chase? You're walking thru the woods on the way to hang a stand and a stupid deer runs right up to you and stops. You blast him. Is that fairer chase than a drive? Is dumb luck fair chase? It's an age old method of hunting in many areas. Still, the modern record books are MOSTLY filled with sitting in a tree waiting. It's more sure fire. First off, most often that old boy in a small wood lot leaves himself and out and usually it's not where you think. IMO.... it's another way of hunting. NOPE, I hardly ever do it.... but it seems just as fair as dumb luck. How many guys are going to pass a record book buck because he just happened to show up when I wasn't even hunting for him.

RE: Pope and Young. . . should they count?
 

its just a book of numbers to me

RE: Pope and Young. . . should they count?
 

If Pope and Young is so irrelevant, then why is everyone whining and weeping about their rules?

Because they are NOT irrelevant. Their rules give their book the one thing that only Boone and Crockett can equal.... Credibility.

Yes, I'm sure there are some animals in there that seedy individuals cheated to get in. They can't take the time to totally validate each and every entry. But, if you try to book an animal that gets into the top of the lists or is up for the Ishi Award, you do have to take, and pass, a polygraph.

Personally, I'd hate to have an animal listed that I cheated to put in the book. Every time I looked at the book I'd be reminded that I cheated. In my opinion, it would take a sorry individual to be able to live with that.