Refund or No refund??
 

Heres the situation- Me & a buddy booked a bow hunt for Iowa this Nov. As you would have it we DID NOT draw an out of state archery tag. Thus, we can not hunt. We are requesting our refund back as a result of means beyond our control. Now, the outfitter states we can roll the deposit over for another year or hunt in a different state that they outfit in. The fact is, I DONT want to hunt in Illinois or Missouri!! I am an average worker & don't make alot of money and could use the 1000.00 deposit, to go hunting in Kansas where I can get a transfer tag to my name, or ever say the heck with it & not go hunting at all. He states that I have up to 3 years to use the deposit. How do I know if I can get the time off work next year?? No where in the internet site does it state that there will be no refunds, also we have absolutly NO CONTRACT!! Basically, what do you think?? Refund or no refund?? Should I seek legal advice?? Thanks for your input.

RE: Refund or No refund??
 

IMO, you are screwed.

Generally speaking, deposits on anything are non-refundable. The deposit $ you paid was to reserve a spot on the outfitters' calendar, not to guarantee an out of state tag. He may have turned away other customers because you had already booked with him.

I think the outfitter is being fair in giving you three years to use your deposit or apply it to other states' hunts. If the outfitter didn't guarantee that you would get a tag, then I don't think you have a legal leg to stand on. It isn't his fault that you weren't drawn.

Just my opinion. I hope that your hunt goes well despite this set-back. Good luck.

RE: Refund or No refund??
 

Sound to me that the outfitter screwed you out of 1000 bucks, but he'll say that you knew the possibility of not getting the tag when you gave him the money. You know I hunted alot of places all over the mid-west, been with many outfitters and they told me the same thing. You can get in Illinois the same type of caliber of deer you can get in Iowa. But you see less deer in Iowa. But in Illinois you see more. Bottom line is you can try to get your money back it many take years to do it. Your heart is probably set in Iowa, but do some thinking maybe this happened for a reason. Maybe you have a 190 class buck with you name on it in Illinois. If this guy is being a real jerk about it tell your friends the name of the outfitter so nobody else get burned, advertisment is their only ways of making money.

RE: Refund or No refund??
 

I've got to agree with The Mouse on this one. It sounds to me like the outfitter is being fair by allowing you three years in which to hunt with them on your deposit.

RE: Refund or No refund??
 

This is one question that should have been discussed before money changed hands. I believe most guides use this same policy.

RE: Refund or No refund??
 

How did you pay the deposit? If it were cash or check I'd start looking at IL. If your payment was by credit card I'd call the guy again and if he's not willing to work it out.If he's not willing to I'd call the credit card company and have them charge it back to your account. It may take them a couple of weeks but they will straighten it out for you.

RE: Refund or No refund??
 

Even if you didn't sign your name, I believe you do have a legal contract. Money has exchanged hands, which is often used to argue that a binding argreement has been made. I'm not an attorney, but this is what I have gathered from recent legal experiences. I'd say apply again next year. You now have a preference point and will likely draw a tag for the '05 season. Either way, best of luck to you.

RE: Refund or No refund??
 

Well, its all ironed out for the most part. guess I'll be hunting in Missouri. Better to use the money up than to just forfeit it. Hopefully I'll connect with a good buck. Thanks for the input all. Just another lesson in this thing we call life.

RE: Refund or No refund??
 

I bet you'll be pleasantly surprised. Missouri has some good huntin', too. Give us a full report upon your return. Go stick a big one! :D

RE: Refund or No refund??
 

Interesting situation. IMO, the Outfitter would have been fair had he/she let you know up front if your deposit would be refunded. What expense have they had so far to hold the deposit? I highly doubt that they turned away people due to you booking with them since the draw odds are not getting everyone a tag.

I think a good outfitter would have refunded the money.................


Don

RE: Refund or No refund??
 

I've read that same scenario on many different outfitters websites. I don't think the outfitter is screwing you out of anything. I completely agree with what Mouse said. I think you should have known about that situation and thought about what you were going to do if you didn't get drawn before you gave him 1K and applied for the tag.

RE: Refund or No refund??
 

That is actual normal.

RE: Refund or No refund??
 

WHO is the Outfitter????????? It's early JULY, IF your slot is not taken by the end of this month that paints a different picture. The Outfitter isn't out a dime IMO. But, "NO CONTRACT" yikes. Assuming any of us had booked this hunt and Assuming we had a contract that outlined the conditions as stated by bigdaddy... would any of you sign up and part with a grand??? WHO is the Outfitter????????????:eek:

RE: Refund or No refund??
 

Chalk it up as a expensive lesson learned don't book with a outfitter unless tag's are guarenteed and as far as rolling it over to another year you are already unhappy with your outfitter and I don't know how you could enjoy a future hunt with this guy. You got hozed and I am sorry to hear it.

RE: Refund or No refund??
 

I wouldn't chalk it up to anything. He says you CAN roll it over... doesn't say you have to. If you had your heart set on it it should be your option. It is beyond your control and he can't guarantee a legal hunt in his state as requested. I think he's just trying to intimidate you a little. I do believe you can be more forceful and recover your deposit. You've given him plenty of notice to fill the slot. He's probably already done so. He's just trying to bait and switch you a little is all. So you're talking $1000 from each of you... that's $2000. In most states that's a good enough case to take to the small claims court. It should have been discussed before hand .... but since it wasn't he's just as screwed as you are. He's provided nothing and you should expect your money back.

RE: Refund or No refund??
 

Definitely a learning experience. Getting things in writing is hard to beat when you are putting your hard earned cash on the line.

It sounds like you have now made adjustments and are going to Missouri, nothing wrong with hunting Mo.. Further rolling the money over is not uncommon.

Just some thoughts:

The way Iowa is set up there are no guarantees to draw a tag. If it were me and I wanted my money back rather than hunt elswhere I would state that directly to the outfitter and if I got any resistance I would tell him I will give him one more chance to give me a refund or I go to the hunting forums on the internet and expose his "no contract" practices. If he has half a brain he will be a little easier to work with then.

I have seen refunds given post haste when the name of their business was put in a negative light on the forms and they see the response it generates.

RE: Refund or No refund??
 

Enough said.

no Contract? Your chances are good in small claims to get your money back...especialy if he filled the slot.

RE: Refund or No refund??
 

It is commen practice to keep the deposit to hold your spot. He should state that in his website or flyer. They usually give you the option of finding someone to fill your spot. This outfitter should now that in Iowa it takes a couple years to get a tag. You should always ask for a bunch of refferances, both successfull and unsuccessfull, call them all, ask all about the hunts they had, ask what was the worst part of the hunt. I personally never book, or pay a deposit in a draw state untill I have a tag in my hand. Hard lesson, yes. Take it on the chin and have fun in Missouri.

RE: Refund or No refund??
 

Without seeing the info provided to you I can't respond fairly for either side. What outfitter was it? Is there a website? You should post this info for everyone else's sake.

RE: Refund or No refund??
 

Sorry buddy, no refund. You shoulda done your homework and saw taht Iowa is a tough state to draw in some areas. I know the zone we own land in is about 1 tag every 3 for bow, 1 in every 2 for shotgun. tough luck. i'm taking the outfitters side. he's giving you three years.

slayer