not an attack but a question then. You say lets clean up the "slobs"....I guess now you have me and a few others confuzed! You must be talking lack of ethics being there were only 2-3 citations handed out last year. Then I guess my 2nd question is how do you enforce ethics being you said you cant?

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I don't think you can regulate ethics in this case, but some folks sure are trying!
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So now just what are you trying to enforce, specifically? If its slobs, you are talking ethics be it wounding, stupidity, and what not. Illegal activity is just that, its illegal and I dont consider them slobs, they are considered Theifs and Cons where I come from. Maybe the way long time Alaskans as a hole look at things are the same but in a pair of different eyes!

Sorry, forgot to address your last post. In MOST states TO INCLUDE ALASKA, its already in effect. Your young basic hunter education! But you have to understand, FROM AN INSTRUCTORS standpoint! We can only show them the door, we cant make them walk through it, be it bowhunter ed or basic hunter ed. Those WWII and Vietnam vets should be willing to back it and support it, TO KEEP IT like they have done before! If nothing more then show the light to those who are willing to put forth the effort to teach! The education of the new generations is the key TO KEEPING what we have now, if that isnt where we start, its were we as hunters STOP!

Bred into it? Yes, look at your hunting mags, your hunting videos, the newsletters, even archery groups! These same groups or buisness are there to &quot;PROMOTE&quot; archery but in the recent past they have done more to HURT it! Yes they have gained many folks interest in archery but more so in SCORES, MONEY, GREED! Sit at North Pole for awhile and listen to what walks through that door! Just what folks have to say and more importantly HOW they say it. You could go just about anywhere and hear a very similar but vagly DIFFERENT group of 'individuals' speak the exact same content, be it greek, english, heck mars for that matter!

We strive to be the best, unfortuntatly 2 things have happened in the rat race, &quot;the best&quot; as a definition has been lost, and what may be left of what the meaning of a bowhunter once was (not dealing with equipment) but what people, bowhunters-archers, stand for is gone! The ideal is how big does it score, how many can I shoot. Look here, most folks who visit these threads are kinda inbetween. But we are SMALL REPRESENTATION of the bowhunters in our respective areas as a hole! Just look at Fairbanks or heck even Alaska Jerry, there is what 7 or 8 of us now, I think GN has over 120 members, Far North has that many, ABA has what 3 or 4 times that many, then look at the trad groups in Anch alone probably are double to what we have in numbers in Fairbanks!

You also say, &quot;they have never had the training&quot;. What a PERFECT reason to become an instructor BAR NONE! I dont teach often enough, but what I can, I will! When I can I will, and to whom ever, be it a class or an individual I will! You have to however have the desire to learn, that is the only pre req I have, not find all my hunting areas which is usually the case!

I am sure you remember awhile back on one of the &quot;partners&quot; threads, where I said something about AGENDA's! Finding the right partner with the right agenda...more so the right mind set/attitude. I think now, just maybe, you might understand exactly what I mean.....I cant spell it out anymore without digs or slams to individuals or groups, which btw I try to minimize believe it or not <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>!

Edited by - Lilhunter on 02/24/2002 16:47:38

Didn't think it was too hard to understand. If somebody breaks the law, and other hunters spot them, they should turn them in.
If somebody is being unethical, yet legal, then there isn't too much we can do about it. We can sit around and complain to the wardens, to the pro shops, to fish and game, and to everybody that somebody stalked your caribou, or you can accept the fact that it is a possibility out there, and their are people discurteous enough to do it.

What I'm hearing from the folks that think new regulations should be made is that illegal acts are happening all the time up there. If they are and the wardens are not catching them, then we need to do what we can to let them know we aren't going to put up with it anymore.

If you don't like the lack of ethics that is sometimes seen up there, I guess that's tough. Not much we can do about somebody running after your caribou and flinging an arrow at 60 yards at it. The regulations state clearly that that is a legal means of hunting.

I don't think there is a real definition on slob hunters. Be it poachers, 80 yard shooters, people that stalk animals that are already being stalked and so on, I guess you can call them what you want. I'm focused on illegal activity.

I don't want to deal with Agenda's when I go hunting. I want to go hunting for the enjoyment. I'll never devote myself to one hunting partner, one area, one style of hunting and so on. Why limit yourself? People like AK Nimrod and SE AK Bowman are great people to hunt with, and I hope to meet many more class act hunters like them in the future.

So if you truely believe there was only 2-3 violations given out..is there really a legal vs illegal problem? Guess it sound like a hypocrits statement when I look back on your posts about enforcement and all! You can enforce them but if there is only a few violations every year, which you do believe, there obviously aint a problem that there isnt enough fish and game wardens that cant handle the job!....What about a wounding problem? Dealing specifcally with the bears and the bou! There is a study on the floor to find out if our equipment (yes yours and mine) is capable of killing moose south of the pass....got the paperwork on hand! Do you really want it to happen up north? Do you really think the AWA, peta, and HSUS is gonna let that one pass....hell its hunters who started that one....the antis are along for the ride, hopefully they dont start plowing there own trail to the north! Hmm, your back yard! With the increased amount of activity on the haul road, espcially with the thought of it being PAVED for crying out loud, just wait till it starts having negative impacts TOWARDS HUNTERS....damn shame, by then it will be TOO LATE!

Personally I havent had the opportunity to LET someone ruin my stalks...sorry charley, I dont like road hunting, guess thats a personal agenda on how I hunt!

As for limiting partners.....nice save!

Its great to meet a ton of folks and romp in the woods, get wet and dirty and all...sure who doesnt enjoy it! But having the right partner in camp makes the hole thing much much more worth while! Also having the right partner, atleast up here, can become life dependant REAL quick! But that is something I am sure you knew already so I wont humor you with those details!

Let me quote myself to answer your first statement.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>What I'm hearing from the folks that think new regulations should be made is that illegal acts are happening all the time up there. If they are and the wardens are not catching them, then we need to do what we can to let them know we aren't going to put up with it anymore.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

I don't limit partners and I don't just go hunting with anybody. Heck, I even went road hunting with YOU this Nov. in YOUR truck, in the same area that you had road hunted during the Sept. moose hunt. Didn't you jump out of the truck and take a shot at a grouse? I could of sworn by your statement that you say you dislike roadhunting? That's your agenda? Something just doesn't add up here.

I wasn't trying to save anything by saying, &quot;why limit yourself?&quot; I just don't understand the need to have one person devoted to you to go hunting with all the time. I head out with family, with friends, and by myself.

Take it how you want to Dan, I'm through discussing this.

funny considering the thought was to look out the 3 vantages points on post.... then again I do see a difference in fellas driving up and down 200 miles of road and jumping in the ditch....Something called intent!

Btw, road hunted in Sept...guess you were there to see the hours I spent before and during the season on the 2 gravel pit bluffs looking over the flats.

Just wait till the slope gets the new raod in.

Wounding Moose, Bears, Caribou, and for godsake Muskox (who in the heck couldnt figure out the difference in muskox and caribou is beyond me and then have the nerve not to finish it off!), let alone the road hunting, the illegal activity..the slope WILL be gone if there isnt change, mark my words!

New York has a manditory safty course but it is mostly on finding your game after the shot they cover mostly blood trailing and some safty like tree stands stuff like that.
10 hours of it.
NO proving you can shoot other than you can draw and release if you hit the target graet if not you still pass if you pass the writen on what was covered in class.

Hunting is nature.
It is our nature to hunt.
I'm not a hunting fanatic just a hunting addict.

Hawaii does not but some of us are going to try to organize enough people (30) to have a bowhunter education class. We are doing pretty good. We already have two people. It is not neccesary here but I was thinking that I should take it so that I can hunt in other states where it is mandatory.

As for proficiency test. There are far too many variables for it to work accurately but it would be a good tool at picking out the bad shot. Not that people should be punnished for being a bad shot at a range that we are good at. Say that the person shoots 5 inch groups at 20 yards but only plans to hunt at 10 - 15 yard distances. We don't know if he's telling the truth or lying. If they are going to do it mandatory, then a points system would be in order. under 60% of possible score would be failure. You would need to simulate treestand shooting, targets, take into consideration the vital size of game that person plans to hunt. Take into consideration that person's weapon(s) and their accurate distance. It might work at picking out the lausy shots but I say we don't need it. Even the best shots can blow it on live game. I rerally don't think it would be neccesary.

Nic

You don't need to take anything in iowa except hunter ed.