oooaa Man[:@][:'(]

shed33 thanks for responding, I have been busy with work, and that's why I have not responed sooner! I live in Idaho Falls, I have hunted all of southeast Idaho, but for elk and mule deer mostly the Salmon, Challis area. Yes it is, very very steep. I totaly forgot about the left over non-resident tags. We can buy them here to, in fact anyone, resident and even non-resident can purches them. I just assumed that it was the extra whitetail tag (1000 permits) that they have here in southern Idaho. I would like to try the liner system for myself I agree that if it only give's you a slight advantage it is woth it. I will still use the wind to my favor. But a hunter cannot control the thermals and (swerling sp?) wind. And any advantage helps. My friend from out of state thought I was crazy too with what I did with my scent control until he came with me, and I insisted that he use my system. He hunted withme for 2 years in a row and came home with a 290 class 6 point bull and a average 4 point bull. Not bad. I admit that I am a nut when it comes to proper calling. When to and when not to call. I have compeated in the Idaho state and Utah state elkcalling contest. Have not won but got second in idaho a few years ago. Havn't compeated for a while, but will this year in Mackey Idaho for the Idaho State RMEF calling contest. Hope to win or be in top three. My goal is to someday be sponsered by a call manufacture. I am friends (don't hunt together) with the winner of the RMEF Mens Pro-Division national champion 2004. He is from "IF" as well, he is sponsered by H-S Strut. With that being said I don't care if you are the best caller in the world "like my friend" if a elk smells you the game is over. So yes controling your scent is most inportant, in my opinion. Thanks
oh I almost forgot..... Davidmil...... well nice butt!!! lolololol, just kidding dude you are a brave man to put a picture of you butt on the internet lololo.

Idahoelkinstructor,

Thanks for the reply, Thats beautiful country down your way. My grandfather lived in Mackey for most of his adult life untill he moved to BlackFoot last year. I have spent some time in Copper Basin, just a tad and been to Mackey and Challis quite a few times. Thats great country! Home of some monster bulls and mule deer bucks.

I'd love to hear ya call and discuss your thoughts on hunting herd bulls. I have a relative out of Council Idaho who is a heck of an elk caller and herd bull bowhunter. He has taught me everything I know. He's taken bulls in the 350 up to his best of 378. Good luck in your calling endevours, its sounds like your one heck of a wapati talker. I spend more time on whitetails but I am always wanting to learn something new about elk, especially in regards to hunting the big fellas that have cows.

I agree our state being so mountainous has VERY unpredictable winds. Between the thermals and fronts moving in and out you rarely see a consistent wind where I hunt anyway. That being said, is why I decided to take a hardcore approach to being as scent minimized as I can. The winds here change every 5 minutes. Start a campfire in Idaho and watch the wind swirl on you constantly. Any tips you have on calling or hunting tips in regards to big herd bulls that you have learned from you personal experiences, I would love to hear and discuss with you. EMAIL ME anytime or PM me. Thanks and very nice to meet you.

Shed

Hi shed, thanks and hope all is well up north.
To be honest the bigest bull I have taken with a bow is 300 class. My friends on the other hand have taken some nice bulls, from 330 on up to a very nice 371 Net bull taken in 1997 (I had the entire month of September to hunt that year). I learned to call elk by trial and error, starting when I was a teenager . My father's favorite mule deer area was a spike elk only area. When I started bowhunting at age 14. I was with my Dad during his mule deer scouting season in September. I could only shoot a spike or cow elk with a bow. I did hunt, but mostly I had a blast trying to call in the big boys. I don't want to give away the area, For the last 8 years, it has been considered a trophy area for elk. You still have to draw to hunt a bull with a rifle, general with archery. But back to my point I was under no pressure (couldn't shoot the heard bull) so if I screwed up and scared him away, Oh well, I just tried to learn from it so it didn't happen again. I don't consider myself the best and I am always trying to learn new tactics and tricks. But I have or should I say my friends have reaped the rewards of my persistence. I just want my friends or family to learn to call good so I can finally be out in front shooting and not in back calling. My wife will tell people that I have every call ever made from different maufacturers. While it's not totally true, I can sound like at least 4 different elk at once, at the same time. If there are other people in the general area that I have chosen to hunt for the year, I am a pest, and try to find out what calls other hunters, and guides are using. I then stay away from those calls or the type of calling they do. As I am sure you know, elk become call shy really fast. So I try to mix things up, and sound like different elk. I honestly believe that there is not a bull elk out on the mountain that a person cannot call in (even the call shy bulls) you just have to find out how push their buttons so to speak. That can take some time and a lot of effort. When you sound like a small heard of elk (a satelite bull and 4 or 5 cows). It somtimes will drive the heard bull crazy. Other heard bulls might respond best with just cow calling. That is where different cow calls, sounds, come in handy. I try to have at least 10 or more cow calls on me. Different sounding diaphrams, and reeds, and all of the push type calls. Other bulls might respond, though not as often as other methods, to head to head big nasty, "I'm better than you" bugles. I like to use this method when splitting the heard. I will say that in this method you have to be perfect in your bugles. This method is also fun to call in other hunters with guides. LOL. For the most part though I like to keep my bugles less threatening, mixing in cow calls. When I put a shooter in front of me, stay anywhere from 40 yards to 100 yards away. I keep moving trying to zig zag behind the shooter like a real elk. If the bull is coming in on the right of the shooter I try to move left of the shooter and vica-versa if on the right. I also move back at the same time to try to pull the bull into the shooter. I will e-mail you but I thought it would be fun to say this here, and hear what other people have to say. On a change of subject do you turkey hunt? I want to so so bad, but here in southeast Idaho we have to either draw or travel north. I have 2 kids ages 13 month and 27 months old. My wife would kill me if I left her home, she wants to turkey hunt real bad too. So we try to Draw out here locally, no luck yet. My entire family goes for the 2 or sometimes 3 week elk hunt. My wife stays in camp with the kids, just for awhile though. Soon they will be old enough to tag along. Thanks.

(added by his wife) and as soon as they can tag along mom finally gets to go huntin' again!!!

Idahoelk,

Thanks for the reply. I think you make a very good point when you talk about finding the right "BUTTONS" to push. From what you say you have a great arsenal to throw at a bull. I believe strongly that every animal, be it whitetail, bear, elk, turkey.... that I hunt......they all have their own personality if you will. I have hunted very shy/reclusive animals to very aggressive and proud animals. So I agree 100% when you say you have to find what gets to that specific animal.

I have never tried the satelite bull and 3-5 cow scenario. That sounds interesting. A lot of what you describe here parallels the approach my good friend and excellent turkey caller Pat Ely from PA takes on a bird. He has a massive arsenal as you do for the bulls and he sets up all kinds of scenarios until he gets that "Boss" to commit. I witnessed him calling both our birds from April away from hens.... the hens about lost it...it was so cool..... I teased Pat about "bugling turkeys" but in reality, calling a herd bull and calling a boss tom have a lot of similarities from what I have experienced in the wild. I think you would love turkey hunting since you enjoy calling so well. I believe most well skilled turkey hunters....that have never had the chance to hunt elk .....would really enjoy calling elk as well, because of the interaction between hunter and game.

I tend to hunt every animal (big game) like I do a whitetail buck. I like to pattern an animal and then ambush him. I do this with bears (no bait or dogs....and I have nothing against that ...I just like patterning animals), bulls outside of the rut... once they go back to feeding and bucks and even turkeys. Dont get me wrong I love hunting the rut too and love calling..... all of the above....but if I have my choice I enjoy getting a critter the "silent way" more than any..... The one turkey I shot with my bow last fall, I patterned them and set up and never made any calls. This season I did get a turkey as well, but I give all the credit to Pat Ely. He did the calling. I did the scouting/patterning of the birds thats it. Pat got a dandy bird here as well. I think you would enjoy hunting turkeys up North. We have plenty and I hunt all public land or public accessible timber company ground and still find good spots where no one else bothers me.

I will come up with some specific questions for you and email them over in regards to bulls... and calling....thanks again, if you ever wanna come up North for turkeys let me know I will help out and put you in a quality area that holds birds.

Shed

my 2004 bird

my bowbird from 03

That might be Dirt2, but I think the main reason to avoid regular detergents is, 1) most detergents made for hunting cloths don't have any color brightners in them, as does "regular detergent".

Shed that is a awsome turkey and you have a great looking son. I have a friend that hunts like you, he patterns every animal he hunts. He is very, very successful. As far as going North to hunt turkey I will, but not this year. My in-laws are strictly rifle hunters. They want me to rifle hunt general elk with them this year, in the backcountry, their area not mine, but still a very good elk area. I will hunt with them, but I want to bow hunt elk as well. It will come down to finances and time, if I can afford it, and take the time for a left over non-resident elk tag for bowhunting. I also am trying to bowhunt late season mule deer in Utah this year with a good friend from Utah. As far as work goes I work with my 2 brothers in construction we are general contractiors. We are trying to make a go of it in our own business. Some months are realy good some are bad. I will E-mail you (you will think this is stupid) but I have to find out how, from my wife, to E-mail someone. I have never done it before. We have only owned this computer for a few months and I had no intrest in it. Until I was wanting to find a load for a 300 RUM and my brother in law refered my to a site, and someone at that site refered me here. I will take you up on your offer of where to go up north for turkey, when the time comes. That is very kind of you, and I am appreciative of that. I will try my best to answer any questions you have on calling elk. Thanks.

[X(][X(][X(] OH DAVIDMIL! I just had breakfast and was enjoying a little smokeless tobacco. I had a bit of a gag after viewing your post...erior. Aw shucks, I needed a good worming. Thanks buddy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't go overboard about decenting myself but I always try to play the wind. Our area of Rochester, NY inevitably has wind currents due to our proximity to both Lake Erie and Lake Ontario. It is essential that you learn your hunt areas well and that you use mother nature to your advantage. I know that folks have hunted the elusive whitetail for many, many years without the aid of suits, sprays, etc. so I guess I am old school in my approach. I consider it an added challenge to get real close by using your knoggin and playing the opposite game the deer play. Sure I've been busted but I always learn from those experiences. Each mistake that I make during the course of a hunt or season is added to the knowledge bank and accessed when I go afield again. Sure it is more difficult but to each his own. Hell, just two years ago my son talked me into hanging up my ol' recurve. Guess I'm just living a bit in the past but I'm loving it just the same. To all those who try the modern tools and technologies I wish them all the success they strive for.