RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

Rack, if you'll start dropping the hammer more often you won't have to worry about that:D

RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

Mantis,

First off, thank you in regards to those critters. Second I have no affiliation for sucker suits :D..thats forsure... I just having been using their product and like their product and feel as those that have their opinions negatively about it, I can give some credit where I feel credit is do........and about me feeling that I wouldnt have harvested those critters without it.... I hope this answers it below.....

100% sure , heck no.... I could never prove that it does 100% ....all I can do is share the bucks and bulls and bears or whatever that I feel this scent free approach and scent lok suit combined has helped out on..... thats it. Definately enough to give credit. Do I think my chances would have been much worse with out it. Yes

I have had so many close encounters with NO negative affects that I could "SEE"...... and I hunt specific deer that I know pretty well from a lot of scouting. This isnt a ranch hunt either or private hunt. This is public ground out here.

In 98 when I first bought the scent lok and changed my entire approach to scent elimination because I was sick of getting busted. I was very very skeptical at first about how well this would reallly help....but figured for 100$ (that was the price for the first liner system scent lok suit I bought) I would give it a chance. I am pretty open minded and if something has good sound science behind it I will look into it. I read all the literature behind the suit and how it was suppose to work. It made sense to me I liked the concept but still for me.....real life proof...would only make me confident in it.

So the first day I get to hunt in it (August 30th 1998) I go through my routine of washing, spraying down etc...still very skeptical and wonder if this is gonna be worth it, but I decided...I made the commitment and spent some money so I figured I would not cut any corners.... anyway I am all ready and trust me at first....it was like starting over...I get within 50 yards of my stand and whoa.....I stop..see movement...down the trail comes a doe and fawn. I am like OH CRAP.... so I just freeze, bow in hand, scent lok suit on and I had my 3-d cover all over it with the head cover and gloves... I am thinking .......her she comes right too me, I guess I will see if this works!!!!" first day out... ever in this stuff... covered head to toe, rubber boots the whole nine yards...pretty much feeling like an alien.

Well what happened next totally blew me away. She (the doe) walks up towards me feeding... Looks at me really funny, I was squinting my eyes sho she wouldnt look me in my eyes...just so I can barely see her. I do not want her to bust me.... She then walks right up to me and I am thinking.....SHES gonna take a bite off this 3-D suit. LMAO ... anyway she gets so close that I can smack her on the nose. She stretches her neck out and sucks in a big ole SMELL of me like a buck flemming... then drops her head and looks for a second, and feeds on by with her fawn in tow who paid no attention to me. I didnt move till they had walked about 50 yards by I turned really slow to watch her feed off over the ridge. Right then and there I knew...something WAS definately OK with this suit and the entire wash up, spray down approach, rubber boats ..everything....

Since then I have been amazed at how close I have had bear, elk and deer directly downwind and NEVER witnessed one spooking. I can say this I am very disciplined when bowhunting in regards to my scent inhibiting preperation. I never get sick of it either, its never work and I enjoy the process, its like riding bike, once I got used to it I wouldnt do it any other way. Its not for everyone tho, especially if it takes the fun out of a persons hunting. I have "fun" seeing the bucks I am after.

The 8x8 I had wind blowing to him in his bed for 2 hours... before got up and came out 1 hour before dark.

The 4x4 He came in ....following a doe who walked right by me.

The bull 7x7. I honestly didnt even worry about the wind, it was swirling in the grassy draw he was feeding in with a 6x6 and rag horn.

I would say the 8x8 old feller... aged at 7.5 shot him on a 100 degree day...afternoon... having that wind blow into his bedding area was enough to make me feel its worth it...

I had a friend tell me once.....this is not intended for you Mantis...but it has always made me think twice..... "open your mind....your arse will follow" I enjoy testing stuff for myself, I tend to only believe what I see work in the wild as far as products go. These days I don't mind feeling like an alien anymore, I enjoy seeing the animals I am after in their natural state.

Shed

RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

Shed, thanks for the response! Well done. If you say your not affiliated with the company I believe you, but damn you should be there salesman![8D]

You know I’ve always felt this way.

The only way to see if this stuff works is to test it. That is the kicker that holds me back I suppose. I guess I’m just too skeptical to take it that far. Maybe someday I’ll give it a shot.

RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

Well the next time my girlfriend tells me that I am off my rocker at the very least I can tell her I am not the only one.

I am like Shed, I cannot say for 100% if the scent lock works. I do know for as much as I swet Deer should be smelling me from down wind but they don't.

RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

I have question's for shed33. First of all, were those animals taken all in Idaho? If so congraulations on drawing the second whitetail tag, I have never have been lucky to draw yet.. Was that the Elk was taken with a rifle? Which is cool if it was. Do you ever hunt elk going in on horseback? Do you do most of your elk bowhunting out of stands, or are you moble. And lastly don't you ever get super hot and sweaty in the september elk rut. The reason I ask this is I mostly hunt in the backcountry. I hunt out of wall tents. I pack in the works in august to set up camp. I bring a small rubbermaid water basin, that I use for a portable bathtub. I heat the water on a turkey cooker. I use different scent lock soap's and scent free spray, never tried vanishing hunter, I will try it sometime. Of course I wash my clothes in scent free laundry detergent. And I store them in a bag with natural vegitation and dirt from the area that I am hunting. I do not have a scent lock suit, my hunting buddy tried it once on our hunt and was getting sick because he was way to hot. He dosn't bring it elk hunting now. I do have horses and use them to pack in, but from there we hunt on foot anywhere from 4-10 miles a day. Our average shot is under 20 yards I am proficient with the calls. My strategy is try to locate the animals stalk in under 100 yards using the wind, and then use the calls. I am not trying to say the scent lock suite doesn't work. But for the type of hunting I mostly do it doesn't. work for me.

RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

Idahoelkinstructor,

Thanks for the ?'s I'll do my best to answer them for you.

1. ALL taken in Idaho yes. You must be from central or southern Idaho, the reason I say that is.....Up here in the Panhandle we can buy up all the left over NON RESIDENT TAGS, elk or deer. BUT we pay the Non-resident fee. My brother and I buy a NON-Resident left over tag each year, so we can hunt a second whitetail. They cost 235.00 but are well worth it to us.

Elk..... yes, In the panhandle if you check the regs, I can use my archery "A Tag to hunt elk with a rifle for 1 week in late Oct. This is a bull that outsmarted me with his cows in archery season, I was able to catch up to him feeding in late Oct (29th) after the rut with two other bulls. We can also buy a LEFT OVER NR-ELK Tags up here in the Panhandle.. it would cost me 338.00.

The Scent Lok Liner system works very well in early archery season, I hike all over in mine its much lighter and more breathable than any light weight camo I have. Would it work in your kind of hunting? This past season my brother hiked in cow calling occasionally and carefuly on a herd bull this Sept. Snuck through all his cows, bugled over the top of the bull once he was within 40 yards of the bull and could see him....the bull instantly came unglued ...... and charged at him....Rob arrowed him at 8 steps. He swears by the scent free/scent lok approach. He counted 12 cows he sifted through before getting to the 6x6 300 class bull. He hiked several miles on this hunt. He lives in Salmon River country near Riggins, you know how steep that country is. The only thing about the liners system is....... its not as tough as your regular camo material is gonna be but every bit as tough as a tee-shirt type camo shirt. I wear the liner in early season. Its just too darned hot to wear anything else. Do folks need scent lok, nope, guys have been killing bucks and bulls and everything else for years. Do I think it helps.... yes. The way I look at it is simple. If a 119.00 investment makes a difference on 1 mature buck, boar or bull in my life time. It's paid for itself. Since I started using it in 98 and following a strict scent free regimen, I have witnessed a huge difference in NOT spooking mature animals while being "bow" close even when rifle hunting.... 20-30 yards... also while scouting. I wear the stuff all summer in the evenings while glassing whitetail bucks and bulls for the up coming archery season.

It sounds like you stay very clean on your pack trips in regards to hunting the elk you hunt. I think that is very important. As for the Vanishing hunter I like it because you can not only spray down with it, you can spray it in your mouth.

Just curious where your located, Take care, best of luck with your job of instructing youngsters, I used to teach Hunters Ed in the mid 90's. Best of luck hunting to you and yours in Idaho.

Shed

RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

Okay, I haven't been yelled at for a few days, and I'm starting to feel all warm and fuzzy. Yuck, feelings like that will make you soft so you don't want to get out in the woods when it's 33 degrees and raining sideways.

So, I am not a scent fanatic. By time I backpack in on an elk hunt I smell like Sasquatch, and I'm in for 4-8 days at a time.

Now for the part where I get yelled at, I wonder where some of this scent control nonsense originated. (Okay, I know, the hunting magazines done it.) I'd like to make a couple wagers with those of you who avoid regular laundry detergent and pit stick like it's the mark of the devil. I'll bet that if a guy were to pour a pile of Tide laundry soap on the ground in front of his stand, it would serve as a mild attractant for whitetails. Seriously, I'm going to try this some day, I think the smell is going to trigger that curiosity instinct in whitetails and make them want to come over and sniff that stuff, see if it tastes good. I'll make the same bet for deodorant.

That said, I do wash my clothes in a hunting type detergent, don't remember what it is. I store my clothes overnight in camp in a sealed garbage bag with a couple of pine scent wafers.

RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

I'm slold on the spray on sent killer. I've never had so many deer come from straight down wind to my stand! You can tell they smell something but it doesn't seem to scare them, now thats does and small bucks I think the big boys a little smarter than that!

RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

Dirt,

Tide? hmmmm wonder if the critters will come running with their dirty socks and scivies too? :D Better get the extra strength Tide incase of "bacon strips" :D:D:D

RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

All the way.

RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

oooaa Man[:@][:'(]:D

RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

shed33 thanks for responding, I have been busy with work, and that's why I have not responed sooner! I live in Idaho Falls, I have hunted all of southeast Idaho, but for elk and mule deer mostly the Salmon, Challis area. Yes it is, very very steep. I totaly forgot about the left over non-resident tags. We can buy them here to, in fact anyone, resident and even non-resident can purches them. I just assumed that it was the extra whitetail tag (1000 permits) that they have here in southern Idaho. I would like to try the liner system for myself I agree that if it only give's you a slight advantage it is woth it. I will still use the wind to my favor. But a hunter cannot control the thermals and (swerling sp?) wind. And any advantage helps. My friend from out of state thought I was crazy too with what I did with my scent control until he came with me, and I insisted that he use my system. He hunted withme for 2 years in a row and came home with a 290 class 6 point bull and a average 4 point bull. Not bad. I admit that I am a nut when it comes to proper calling. When to and when not to call. I have compeated in the Idaho state and Utah state elkcalling contest. Have not won but got second in idaho a few years ago. Havn't compeated for a while, but will this year in Mackey Idaho for the Idaho State RMEF calling contest. Hope to win or be in top three. My goal is to someday be sponsered by a call manufacture. I am friends (don't hunt together) with the winner of the RMEF Mens Pro-Division national champion 2004. He is from "IF" as well, he is sponsered by H-S Strut. With that being said I don't care if you are the best caller in the world "like my friend" if a elk smells you the game is over. So yes controling your scent is most inportant, in my opinion. Thanks
oh I almost forgot..... Davidmil...... well nice butt!!! lolololol, just kidding dude you are a brave man to put a picture of you butt on the internet lololo.

RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

Idahoelkinstructor,

Thanks for the reply, Thats beautiful country down your way. My grandfather lived in Mackey for most of his adult life untill he moved to BlackFoot last year. I have spent some time in Copper Basin, just a tad and been to Mackey and Challis quite a few times. Thats great country! Home of some monster bulls and mule deer bucks.

I'd love to hear ya call and discuss your thoughts on hunting herd bulls. I have a relative out of Council Idaho who is a heck of an elk caller and herd bull bowhunter. He has taught me everything I know. He's taken bulls in the 350 up to his best of 378. Good luck in your calling endevours, its sounds like your one heck of a wapati talker. I spend more time on whitetails but I am always wanting to learn something new about elk, especially in regards to hunting the big fellas that have cows.

I agree our state being so mountainous has VERY unpredictable winds. Between the thermals and fronts moving in and out you rarely see a consistent wind where I hunt anyway. That being said, is why I decided to take a hardcore approach to being as scent minimized as I can. The winds here change every 5 minutes. Start a campfire in Idaho and watch the wind swirl on you constantly. Any tips you have on calling or hunting tips in regards to big herd bulls that you have learned from you personal experiences, I would love to hear and discuss with you. EMAIL ME anytime or PM me. Thanks and very nice to meet you.

Shed

RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

Hi shed, thanks and hope all is well up north.
To be honest the bigest bull I have taken with a bow is 300 class. My friends on the other hand have taken some nice bulls, from 330 on up to a very nice 371 Net bull taken in 1997 (I had the entire month of September to hunt that year). I learned to call elk by trial and error, starting when I was a teenager . My father's favorite mule deer area was a spike elk only area. When I started bowhunting at age 14. I was with my Dad during his mule deer scouting season in September. I could only shoot a spike or cow elk with a bow. I did hunt, but mostly I had a blast trying to call in the big boys. I don't want to give away the area, For the last 8 years, it has been considered a trophy area for elk. You still have to draw to hunt a bull with a rifle, general with archery. But back to my point I was under no pressure (couldn't shoot the heard bull) so if I screwed up and scared him away, Oh well, I just tried to learn from it so it didn't happen again. I don't consider myself the best and I am always trying to learn new tactics and tricks. But I have or should I say my friends have reaped the rewards of my persistence. I just want my friends or family to learn to call good so I can finally be out in front shooting and not in back calling. My wife will tell people that I have every call ever made from different maufacturers. While it's not totally true, I can sound like at least 4 different elk at once, at the same time. If there are other people in the general area that I have chosen to hunt for the year, I am a pest, and try to find out what calls other hunters, and guides are using. I then stay away from those calls or the type of calling they do. As I am sure you know, elk become call shy really fast. So I try to mix things up, and sound like different elk. I honestly believe that there is not a bull elk out on the mountain that a person cannot call in (even the call shy bulls) you just have to find out how push their buttons so to speak. That can take some time and a lot of effort. When you sound like a small heard of elk (a satelite bull and 4 or 5 cows). It somtimes will drive the heard bull crazy. Other heard bulls might respond best with just cow calling. That is where different cow calls, sounds, come in handy. I try to have at least 10 or more cow calls on me. Different sounding diaphrams, and reeds, and all of the push type calls. Other bulls might respond, though not as often as other methods, to head to head big nasty, "I'm better than you" bugles. I like to use this method when splitting the heard. I will say that in this method you have to be perfect in your bugles. This method is also fun to call in other hunters with guides. LOL. For the most part though I like to keep my bugles less threatening, mixing in cow calls. When I put a shooter in front of me, stay anywhere from 40 yards to 100 yards away. I keep moving trying to zig zag behind the shooter like a real elk. If the bull is coming in on the right of the shooter I try to move left of the shooter and vica-versa if on the right. I also move back at the same time to try to pull the bull into the shooter. I will e-mail you but I thought it would be fun to say this here, and hear what other people have to say. On a change of subject do you turkey hunt? I want to so so bad, but here in southeast Idaho we have to either draw or travel north. I have 2 kids ages 13 month and 27 months old. My wife would kill me if I left her home, she wants to turkey hunt real bad too. So we try to Draw out here locally, no luck yet. My entire family goes for the 2 or sometimes 3 week elk hunt. My wife stays in camp with the kids, just for awhile though. Soon they will be old enough to tag along. Thanks.

(added by his wife) and as soon as they can tag along mom finally gets to go huntin' again!!!

RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

Idahoelk,

Thanks for the reply. I think you make a very good point when you talk about finding the right "BUTTONS" to push. From what you say you have a great arsenal to throw at a bull. I believe strongly that every animal, be it whitetail, bear, elk, turkey.... that I hunt......they all have their own personality if you will. I have hunted very shy/reclusive animals to very aggressive and proud animals. So I agree 100% when you say you have to find what gets to that specific animal.

I have never tried the satelite bull and 3-5 cow scenario. That sounds interesting. A lot of what you describe here parallels the approach my good friend and excellent turkey caller Pat Ely from PA takes on a bird. He has a massive arsenal as you do for the bulls and he sets up all kinds of scenarios until he gets that "Boss" to commit. I witnessed him calling both our birds from April away from hens.... the hens about lost it...it was so cool..... I teased Pat about "bugling turkeys" but in reality, calling a herd bull and calling a boss tom have a lot of similarities from what I have experienced in the wild. I think you would love turkey hunting since you enjoy calling so well. I believe most well skilled turkey hunters....that have never had the chance to hunt elk .....would really enjoy calling elk as well, because of the interaction between hunter and game.

I tend to hunt every animal (big game) like I do a whitetail buck. I like to pattern an animal and then ambush him. I do this with bears (no bait or dogs....and I have nothing against that ...I just like patterning animals), bulls outside of the rut... once they go back to feeding and bucks and even turkeys. Dont get me wrong I love hunting the rut too and love calling..... all of the above....but if I have my choice I enjoy getting a critter the "silent way" more than any..... The one turkey I shot with my bow last fall, I patterned them and set up and never made any calls. This season I did get a turkey as well, but I give all the credit to Pat Ely. He did the calling. I did the scouting/patterning of the birds thats it. Pat got a dandy bird here as well. I think you would enjoy hunting turkeys up North. We have plenty and I hunt all public land or public accessible timber company ground and still find good spots where no one else bothers me.

I will come up with some specific questions for you and email them over in regards to bulls... and calling....thanks again, if you ever wanna come up North for turkeys let me know I will help out and put you in a quality area that holds birds.

Shed

my 2004 bird

RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

my bowbird from 03

RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

That might be Dirt2, but I think the main reason to avoid regular detergents is, 1) most detergents made for hunting cloths don't have any color brightners in them, as does "regular detergent".

RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

Shed that is a awsome turkey and you have a great looking son. I have a friend that hunts like you, he patterns every animal he hunts. He is very, very successful. As far as going North to hunt turkey I will, but not this year. My in-laws are strictly rifle hunters. They want me to rifle hunt general elk with them this year, in the backcountry, their area not mine, but still a very good elk area. I will hunt with them, but I want to bow hunt elk as well. It will come down to finances and time, if I can afford it, and take the time for a left over non-resident elk tag for bowhunting. I also am trying to bowhunt late season mule deer in Utah this year with a good friend from Utah. As far as work goes I work with my 2 brothers in construction we are general contractiors. We are trying to make a go of it in our own business. Some months are realy good some are bad. I will E-mail you (you will think this is stupid) but I have to find out how, from my wife, to E-mail someone. I have never done it before. We have only owned this computer for a few months and I had no intrest in it. Until I was wanting to find a load for a 300 RUM and my brother in law refered my to a site, and someone at that site refered me here. I will take you up on your offer of where to go up north for turkey, when the time comes. That is very kind of you, and I am appreciative of that. I will try my best to answer any questions you have on calling elk. Thanks.

RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

[X(][X(][X(] OH DAVIDMIL! I just had breakfast and was enjoying a little smokeless tobacco. I had a bit of a gag after viewing your post...erior. Aw shucks, I needed a good worming. Thanks buddy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:):)

RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

;) I don't go overboard about decenting myself but I always try to play the wind. Our area of Rochester, NY inevitably has wind currents due to our proximity to both Lake Erie and Lake Ontario. It is essential that you learn your hunt areas well and that you use mother nature to your advantage. I know that folks have hunted the elusive whitetail for many, many years without the aid of suits, sprays, etc. so I guess I am old school in my approach. I consider it an added challenge to get real close by using your knoggin and playing the opposite game the deer play. Sure I've been busted but I always learn from those experiences. Each mistake that I make during the course of a hunt or season is added to the knowledge bank and accessed when I go afield again. Sure it is more difficult but to each his own. Hell, just two years ago my son talked me into hanging up my ol' recurve. Guess I'm just living a bit in the past but I'm loving it just the same. To all those who try the modern tools and technologies I wish them all the success they strive for.

RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

Hey Guys......
Here is some food for thought......You wash all clothes and yourself in scentfree soap....Pull on your rubber boots and go hunt'n
After hunting for -X- amount of hours, You come home and remove your rubber boots and take off your camo pants....To do this you have to pull the pants over your feet that have just spent-X- amount of hours in your rubber boots........ Now next time you go hunt'n, You smell like stinky feet.......Have you ever gave that a thought?:eek:

RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

wASH IN SCENT FREE SOAP AND HUNTING CLOTHES. Hunt 20feet high no problems.

RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

Yup - thats why I never wear anything twice without washing it.....................

but that is getting old also:D

RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

I guess I don't stink, cause people have been telling me for years, that I don't have the scents I was born with.:D

And yes I do own one of those wonder suits. And I always wonder if they work. But hey it's a confidence builder. Also spray down and wash in scent free soap. Even after all the rituals, If they see you move you lose.[:@]

RE: How Far Will you go to be Sent Free
 

I wonder if that would be considered baiting? I'd hate to be the busted for hunting over TIDE.;)