Camo controversy continues.....
 

Well, I had a few minutes to spare on the way home from the shop this afternoon so I decided to do some picture-taking with my new Advantage Timber leafy outfit. Obviously, I could not take pictures of myself so last night I rigged up a nice little setup to hang the suit from. I will let you folks judge the picture for themselves. Oh, and the last one was just a beautiful shot I took on the way home. Give me a minute or two to post all of them before replying.....

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

2

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

3

[

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

4

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

5

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

6

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

7

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

PA,

That looks awesome! I am using the MOBU leafy suit. I must admit, I do not see where the suit is in pic #5? Where is it? Are my eyes that bad or is this suit that good?

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

It appears to me to be at the base of the tree in the center of the pic on the right hand side.

Pic 7 looks great!! Its one of those pics when you think wish I was there.

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

This may help.

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

That's nearly invisible and looks to be only about 15 yards away!

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

The first picture is within 6 or 7 yards. The 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 6th pics are approximately 15 yards from the suit while number 5 is probably about 20 yards away.

Now, I am not trying to paint a rosy picture here. Obviously, all pictures are on ground level and the suit is relatively "2-D" because of the frame I used. With a person inside it may be more distinguishable from the surroundings. Also, I had to shrink these pictures considerably to get them down to 75K so that I could embed them in the posts. Once I free up some of my free AOL space then I will try to upload a full sized picture to see if it helps to identify the suit more easily.

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

No offense........;) but all I see is a person standing against a tree in every picture except that one #5? in which case I think ANY camo would have looked pretty good in the position chosen.

You have the suit lined up with a tree in every case, and I can STILL clearly see a human outline in most of those pics.......which will be made worse with the dark shadows you get off a normal patterned headnet and as the suit fills out with a body inside.(Typically the worst and darkest shadows can be seen around the head, under the arms and between the legs)

Pull that pattern 2 feet to the right or left in any of the pictures and it's bye bye baby........[:-]:D

It doesn't look 'Bad' in the spots you've chosen but the dark nature of the pattern still btrays an outline. I don't doubt sitting at the base of any of those trees would be good for turkeys in that suit because the tones are similar overall and you'd just be a blob rather than a human form.

You can fight it all you want Franklin;)........the "Open" patterns are just superior at destroying the human outline and form which is "A" #1 to an animal in terms of danger.

Go back and look at the picture of Davidmil on the ground.....even as clear and close as those pictures are you have a hard time drawing his outline against NOTHING behind him.

I guess I'm going to have to follow through on my treestand comparison shortly. I hope I can climb , I think I have a ruptured or herniated disc in my back?![&o]

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

Awsome, PA! Now if only we could get a few others do do the same thing with several other camo patterns we could compile them into one large article and post it on the site for everyone to see.

Wouldn't that be nice?

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

Awesome pics! I think all leafy suits work much better than regular camo outfits. I was going to get some ASAT pics this weekend but my mom took the digital for the weekend. So I'm gonna have to put that off till a later date. Hopefully within the next two weeks I'll get some pics posted. Good work PA!

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

Frank great pictures and nice camo.


Matt. What do you mean by OPEN camo? FOrgive my ignorance but not sure what you are describing. What pictures are you talking about with David Mill? Can you post them so we can compare? Thanks


Brian

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

ASAT is an 'Open' pattern, so is Predator Camo.

Notice how the pattern has large contrasting areas? White on brown. Brown on Black. Light brown on brown. Etc, etc... This is an 'Open' pattern.

Now, notice on Mossy Oak's New Breakup that the pattern is all bunched together? It looks like a thick tangled bunch of brush doesn't it? When you look at it from a distance it looks like a dark blob because of the lack of contrasting colors.

Just how I've always viewed it... Camo is camo to me though...

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

Nice pics Frank. My favorite "once-in-the-tree" camo was Treebark a long time ago, but I love the "open" camo designs much better for walking to and from stands and ground hunting. Predator, ASAT, and the Cabela's Outfitter series(one of them) is my 2004 choice. I sure do like that leafy look though.

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

That's some nice camo Frank. Is it quiet and what kind of insulative material does it have?

Fritz

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

Thanks for the posts guys. Lets see if I can answer questions/comments one at a time.

Matt,

As I mentioned in the post just prior to yours, I was not trying to propose that the pattern/suit in question was superior to anything. I mentioned the "2-D effect" due to the lack of their actually being a person inside. As I said in my original post I will leave the judgement up to each and every one of you. However, I do find it interesting that you were pretty much the only one who found the pattern to be easily identified.

As for it being up against a tree....two comments. One, I had to "hang it" from something as the frame I made was designed in that fashion. The second pic does give you some idea since it is not entirely against the tree trunk. It does stand out a bit as a dark pattern and yet is similar enough in color and texture, in my opinion to blend in with the tree trunks next to it. Two, I don't know about you but it was always my understanding that a hunter should stand with their back against a tree so that they are not silhouetted and also, to a lesser extent, to hide movement from anything which may be behind the hunter.

Now ya see, I do not entirely disagree with that point Matt. But, one, that is your opinion and yet it does not really sound like that when I read it....and, two, it has always been my understanding that some camos work better by "breaking up" and some work by "blending in".

I have to be honest with you. As I look at David on the ground he does stand out considerably in my opinion. I can pick out his outline quite well because there are too many open/light spots in that pattern compared against the background behind him. Up in that tree is an entirely different story. He blends in quite well.

Cool. I love these types of comparisons. :)

Washington Hunter...I think Matt just gave you your wish. ;)

I would love to see them and agree with you totally. The leafy outfits blend in much better than just a flat pattern.

Brian,

There is a thread on this forum from a few days ago where Davidmil and Len posted some pics of both an ASAT leafy suit and a flat mossy oak breakup outfit against some various backgrounds. It should only be a few pages back.

Coug,

I agree with that totally. Out in the open I am sure that open patterns do work much better by the nature of the design. I also agree that against a tree or thick brush then the more common patterns also do work well.

Fred,

This is just a mesh/leafy cut-out suit that Cabelas sells. There is no insulation but rather just a mesh material underneath. It is 100% polyester so it should not fade as badly as cotton would provided you take precautions.

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

Frank, thats interesting. I think the pictures show that in a given circumstance, any camo can be effective. Though I tend to agree that the camo starts to blob up at a distance. If all animals were walking straight toward you with you back against a tree, no one would have a problem with any pattern for the most part. The problems come into the equation when the deer are not moving straight at you. I've been busted time and time again from the side. This is why Predator is my choice from now on. I think its a little better then MO or Realtree in the respect.

I've been trying to get outside with the camera again to take some more pictures of Predator vs. MO Breakup and other designer clothes. I took my first set I posted here in the winter and to be honest, Predator had an unfair advantage with the snow.

I hope maybe this week to start getting some pics.

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

MM88,

That has basically what I have been saying all along. The funny though is that it always seems that the High Definition guys don't always admit it and neither do the open pattern proponents.

I agree totally. With a light open sky and some branches behind you the open patterns really shine by the very nature of the design. I never argued against that point. But then again even when we are in trees we are not always highlighted by a light background just like not always being highlighted by a dark background when we are on the ground. :)

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

I have some predator coming in fall brown and evolution. When it gets here I'll take some pictures for comparision.

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

Yea I couldnt find the suit in #5 either till you drew the arrow to it.

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

thanks frank for the lead on the post a few days earlier. I looked over it and am not impressed with the open models or patterns. I guess when I get my new camo for next year it will be Realtree HD wood or gray whatever the name is. It just wont be the green one do to I already have camo in green for early season. I need my late season stuff. This helped me out with which one to get now I am sure I will be getting Realtree HD woods brown.


Brian

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

Here is a B/W pic of my hunting buddy wearing ASAT that I posted last year from memory I was about 15 yds away.

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

See, I would be all fine and good with it if deer really saw in only black and white...

RE: Camo controversy continues.....
 

Brian,

I don't have any Realtree Hardwoods patterns...surprisingly. I am more fond of the Advantage Timber as in evidence by the pics. :) ...though I do try to keep an open mind.

Washington Hunter,

I agree....if only deer did see in just black and white.