When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

Watching TOC this morning, the guy shoots a very nice 8pt, 130-140 class deer. He proceeds to say "I didn't get the trophy I was after, but this management buck will have to do".[:@]

Since when did a 130-140 class deer become a management buck? THATS A FREAKING TROPHY IS MOST AREAS OF THIS COUNTRY>

I think we hunters are getting too obsessed with bone these days. Unless you happen to live in Kansas, Iowa, Wisconsic, etc, odd are you will never see a deer over 160 in you life, much less actually harvest him. These pukes making all these videos on the fenced in ranches are slowly changing the perceptions of what a trophy deer is. Also, every hunt you see is in Iowa, Kansas, Wisconsin, IL, I feel it gives a lot of hunter a false sense of what they realisticly expect to see while hunting.

I remember when any buck was a "trophy" with a bow. Now, it seems if you don't make P&Y, you don't have a trophy.

Hunting mags and vidoes are doing to us hunters what the TV and fashion mags do to women, giving unrealistic expectations.

Don't get me wrong, I like killing nice bucks as much as the next guy. But, I wonder if I have set unrealistic goals for myself. I've let some really nice bucks walk, only to not fill a tag, waiting on what, may or may not even really be out there in my neck of woods.

Holler if ya here me............

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

"Also, every hunt you see is in Iowa, Kansas, Wisconsin, IL, I feel it gives a lot of hunter a false sense of what they realisticly expect to see while hunting."

They also give a false sense of what can realistically expect to be seen while hunting in Iowa, Kansas, Wisconsin, and IL. Ask the thousandss of hunters that flock to Pike County, IL every year and are disappointed to not find a B&C buck behind every tree.

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

The day that folks realized you could manufacture a trophy by feeding it special supplements, by letting it grow older and by importing "special deer" into the breeding herd to increase the genetic potential of the local population......;)

In other words, when it became all about money and fame.

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

I live in Wisconsin. There are many many places where a 130 deer is very uncommon. Those are also the places where "brown is down" and shooting a fork horn makes you a man. I'm very lucky to hunt in an area where the farmers/hunters are starting to say "I'm not shooting a little buck this year, I'll shoot a doe and let him grow". Thanks to that kind of attitude I have seen 130 -140 bucks several times last year two that had to be over 150, and a 158 was taken off of our hunting property by bow. If the attitude changes the deer will change as well. About 3-4 years with proper nutrition should grow a 130 class deer. If you can go with out shooting a buck for that long, as many of us have, you too can have nice bucks walking around. It sure is more fun to hunt now than 20 years ago where a 13" wide 8 was a big buck.
As for the TV shows, Who's going to watch guys go out in the woods to shoot a little dink? What fun is that?

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

I do agree with you about some of what is said here handles but why do they have to make it seem as if they aren't happy unless they bring home the "animal of a lifetime." They need to make it seem as if they are there just to experience hunting as a whole, not just the animal harvested.

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

It is a trophy in the vast majority of places, however in intensely managed ranches it's a cull buck. It's never going to be much bigger than that and they don't want it competing for food or passing on it's genetics. If you were managing a parcel of ground and you were trying to manage the buck to doe ratio, would you kill a 10 pt that scored 130 but had the potential to be a 170 or would you kill the 130 8 pt that had pretty much reached his potential. Those two extra points make all the differnce in the world in a deer's score. Do, I perfer to see the primos guys shoot a 130 on their lease near Pittsfield to a guy shooting a 160 at the Perlitz, sure I do. But the bottom line is big bucks sell. Some of these folks hunt hard and we just see the highlights. Others just go from ranch to ranch and shoot deer that the guides have already named.

I don't look at it that way. You have to have goals and if they can do it, you can too. At least you have to think that. If the area that you hunt doesn't hold the kind of deer that you are seeing killed on TV then you may have unrealistic expectations if you expect to kill one in your backyard. Most pragmatic hunters, like myself, realize that while trophy class bucks do come out of the area that I live in, they are hard to come by. Therefore, I travel to areas that will statistically give me a better chance of killing a big one. However, I realize that I will still have to work just as hard to fulfill my expectations and it may still take a while. I have also hunted long enough to know that they don't just come in and surrender no matter where you hunt. That being said, the 3 L's of marketing (Location, Location, Location) is still the most important factor to success. IMO. Watching the TV shows doesn't give me unrealistic expectations. It just makes the drive grow stronger inside of me to kill big deer and to hunt the areas that increase my chances of killing one.

Anyone that goes anywhere and expects to see a deer much less a B & C behind every tree, deserves to be disappointed.

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

Silentassassin, I understand and agree with everything you posted, but I still get sick and tired of the "management buck" garbage. So if I'm managing for a 200 class 12 pt, then every 5 year old 170 class 10 pt is a management buck. Where does the madness end.

Yes, they pull out 160's and up out of my area every year, but I don't expect to get one, they are very rare. And like you, I hunt places like IL, to increase my odds of a trophy, but I'm still sick and tired of this management buck bs. And truth be known, the ONLY people who use those tactics are hunting fenced deer, where you can control every variable. It's like these a$$holes are to "good" to actually try to hunt a 140 class 8pt, afterall, management bucks are stupid and easy kill, right.

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

never have and never will hunt for horns. Can't eat them, little racks make good rattles, no point on hanging a deer on my wall to show everyone that i killed a big deer. Take a picture. what i show people when they walk into my house is a nice vension dinner. Sorry to the guys who hunt for big bucks and big buck alone is i affended you but i see no point in it. I understand why it would be cool to have one, but for me i rather have meat than horns.

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

I would


That very statement sums up exactly the attitude that has developed in a large number of hunters today..........and was a major point of the original post. I feel so bad for people that do not enjoy a hunt or harvest just because they didn't bag a wall hanger.

Hunting is so much more then big racks. I HATE when I see a young hunter clearly not happy with his deer because it isn't big enough [:@]..........who the hell teaches a kid that??

People have to get over this antler obsession because it is a dead end street in todays world. Already the records that have stood for decades are dropping like flies and soon there will be a new world record every year..........making the title all but meaningless. Science has thrown it's hat into the deer ring and people can make money off big bucks..........this combo will result in more and more big bucks until they are no longer the exception, but the rule. The true beauty of a trophy is how long and hard you have to work to get it...........and how few and far between your chances are. When it is no longer a big deal to have taken a 160 class buck.........everyone will want a 180......then 200........and so on until the genetic max of whitetails is reached and then what??

If a 130 class buck is a management buck today, in 5 years it will be a 150 class that is no longer good enough. This Antler race is stupid because the finish line is a dead end. Deer can only grow so big, the only challenge to science is how to get them that big as fast as possible to maximize profits. Once that bridge is crossed there is no where else to go. I guess the only bragging rights left will be how many huge deer you have killed.


I enjoy watching Ted Nugent........he is nuts but I have seen him shoot a lot of does and small bucks on his shows. Each and every one he gets just as excited as he does over a monster buck...........even if it is acting on his part, it delivers a very good message to children. Taking an animal is a great accomplishment and nothing should lesson that feeling........no matter what the head gear looks like.


As far as unrealistic expectations I totally agree that most hunters are unable or unwilling to realize the true potential of their local hunting areas. You have to put your time in and watch an area at different times of the year in different ways to get an idea of what it has to offer. If you cover lots of ground, and do lots of sitting, glassing, and spotlighting you will get a good idea of what is in that particular area.......you aren't gonna see them all, but you will see a good portion of the local herd and it will allow you to make a good guess as to what to expect come hunting season. If you see 30-40 bucks over a year and they are all in the spike-6pt range then I wouldn't set up shop and expect Goliath to trot on by.

The problem has a lot to do with people being lazy and just going in the woods after watching videos all summer and complaining that the deer are too small............when if they had done their homework they would already know that and could either accept it or go somewhere else that better suits their demands.

Know your local area and know your local hunters. If you hunt in a "brown it's down" kinda place then just decide if that is OK with you. If not, find another area that is better for you.

I can't afford to let a deer walk by where I hunt the majority of my time. That deer will just be taken by another hunter 90% of the time. I'm OK with this and me and my family have taken tons of deer out of those woods over the years. We enjoyed them all immensely. We even managed 2 big boys over those many seasons.

I think a trophy is a deer that stands out from the crowd. One that you can honestly say is uncommon for your area. If you see nothing but forks and small bucks all the time this could mean a good solid 8 pointer............if you see 140 class bucks a lot this could mean a 160 class would stand out.........whatever.........as long as it makes people go WOW!!! when they see him.

A day will come that a big buck no longer makes people say WOW!!! similar to the way they treated that 130 class buck in the first post. At that point what thrill will be left for antler chasers??


BTW........another thing that bugs me is when I see a guy on TV letting his little boy shoot a HUGE buck as his first deer...........he is not preparing that kid for a lifetime of hunting, he is preparing him for a lifetime of less fun when he has to "settle" for smaller bucks in the future. That's about as smart as letting him have his first experience with a woman be with Jenna Jameson.........just puts real life in a bad perspective [:o]

RE: When did a 140" 8pt become a management buck???
 

well said atlas

Its all about understanding what's reasonable in the area you hunt. One of my hunting spots I can expect to see lots of bucks, with a tiny percentage being big(nearing 120). Another spot I have has VERY very few deer, BUT, the deer you see could easily turn out to be a 140" buck.
I just can't believe how many guys get caught up in waiting for that big one that just doesn't exist. I feel bad for them.