I need your advice
 

In the next month or so, I will buying a new bow. I have narrowed my choices (I think) doen to the following.

Bowtech:

1) Extreme VFT
2) Patriot VFT Single
3) Justice

Matthews:

1) FX
2) Legacy


I'm interested in looking at Hoyt, but I really don't know much about their lineup. This will be strictly a hunting rig, no 3d. Basically I want a bow 32-34" ATA, single cam (I think, but not opposed to two, wanting some pros and cons). I have been shooting a 10 year old 2 cam bow with a mushy back wall so I want a solid wall, draw stops would be even better. 80% letoff even though I'm used to shooting 65%, and shooting faster than my current setup. I currently shoot a High Country Royal Hunter, 31" draw, arrow weight of ~460 grains ACC 3-60's, currently shooting 265 fps. I want the bow to be somewhat forgiving but not to the point of sacrificing speed to below where I am currently shooting. Looking for quiet shooting as well, my bow is loud.

I'd like input from any of the guys currently shooting the bows listed and am open to other suggestions. This will about a $1,000 investment so I want to be able to make a wise, well informed decision. I also plan to shoot as many of th bows listed to help in my decision. I feel confident you guys won't steer me wrong.

PS: I'm really leaning toward one of the Bowtechs, but I have not totally made up my mind. [:-]

Thanks in advance.

RE: I need your advice
 

Bump. C'mon guys help me out here.

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[Deleted by Admins]

RE: I need your advice
 

I am shooting a Mathews now so I'm sorta partial. But you need to find out what AtoA length you are comfortable shooting and test all the bows in that length.

RE: I need your advice
 

I like the patriot but shoot em and pick the one that feels the best.

RE: I need your advice
 

Same with the other guys....you gotta shoot em and decide for yourself. Pay attention to what you do with the bow.......hunt?.......3-D?......both?. I plan to hunt and shoot 3-D with my bow, so I just bought a Patriot single cam since it gave me a relatively flat arrow trajectory, was smooth to draw, was one of the shorter VFT's, and was pretty forgiving. Now I could only afford 1 bow. You get an archery lunatic like PABowhntr whose had more bows than I've taken shots and his decision was to buy 2 Bowtechs, 1 for 3-D (Liberty), and 1 for hunting (Mighty Mite). Chime in any time to correct me PABowhntr, but this is what I've ascertained through your other posts.

The Liberty is best at the smooth draw, has great forgiveness, and decent speed. It makes a great bow for repetitive 3-D shooting. His Mighty Mite is the shortest ATA bow in the Bowtech bunch, doesn't draw as nice as the Liberty, still has a good bit of forgiveness, and retains speed other short ATA bows give up. The point I'm trying to make is that he could specialize his selection more in buying 2 bows while I tried to make certain compromises across the feature board and buy what I thought was the best at doing everything reasonably.

First ask yourself if this is going to be your only bow, then ask yourself what you plan to do with it. Then, try to shoot the bows that offer the best set of characteristics for what you plan to do. If you can’t shoot them for some reason, then and only then consider what others recommend.

I am a bit partial to Bowtech right now, although I haven’t owned many bows so you can throw my partiality out the window. I just like to stick by a company that seems to support their shooters as much as Bowtech does.

Good luck in your selection,

Fritz

RE: I need your advice
 

Here's my $0.02

Like you I am partial to Bowtech. I shoot a Patriot Dually for my hunting rig. For hunting I look for a forgiving, quiet bow with speed (that I will weight down and turn into Kinetic energy). Quiet and speed are competing variables for those of us with normal wingspans (drawlength). You however are a different story. With a 31 inch draw you can get speed/power out of any bow. Any bow of course that comes with a 31 inch draw. The specs below were cut/paste off the BT web site. The only 31 inch draw below is the Pat Dually. If you are willing/able to change draw length down to 30 inches the others are available. You should make every effort to shoot all of the bows (mathews included) before you purchase any of them.

Patriot: Single. Forgiving 7 inch Brace height and excellent power out of a single cam bow which are typically more quiet than dual cam bows (all things being equal). You would not go wrong with this bow.

Patriot Dually. I shoot the dually because I'm a little bit of a speed junky with a 28 inch draw. I need a dual cam bow to get speed, you do not. I pay for it every time I draw this bow back, it is the definition of harsh draw cycle. I pay a little more for it when I shoot. Dual cam bows, all things being equal, are typically more noisy than a comperable single cam bow. It has a very forgiving 7 5/8 brace height. Pick this bow if you prioritize speed/power over quiet.

Extreme VFT: Nice bow but the 6 5/8 Brace height would keep me from buying it. It's impressive IBO speeds (equal to Pat Dually) are a direct result of this low brace height. With your 30-31 inch draw, speed is not a problem from any bow so I'd stick to more foregiving brace heights for hunting situations. If you are a speed junky or have excellent form, this bow may be an option.

Justice VFT. Extremely forgiving brace height of 8 inches and IBO speeds that arent too shabby. If I had to pick one of these bows for you, this would be it. I think it's a nice combination of all the things you want in a hunting bow. The one trade off is that it's a shorty. Some people shoot shortys and see no difference in them than they do a 38 inch axle to axle bow. Others claim shortys are less stable in the hand and dont group quite as well as the longer bows. It's give and take everywhere you turn. For shots at 30 yards or less with quiet speed and maneuverability, I think the bow for you is the Justice.

Justice VFT Specifications FreedomCam
Brace Height: 8”
Draw Length: 25” to 30”
Axle to Axle Length: 31 1/4”
Let Off: 65% to 80%
Mass Weight: 3 lbs 12 oz
IBO Speed Rating: 296 to 304 fps

Extreme VFT Specifications InfinityCam
Brace Height: 6 5/8”
Draw Length: 25” to 30”
Axle to Axle Length: 34 1/16”
Let Off: 65% to 80%
Mass Weight: 3 lbs 12 oz
IBO Speed Rating: 325 to 333 fps

Patriot VFT Specifications InfinityCam
Brace Height: 7”
Draw Length: 25” to 30”
Axle to Axle Length: 33”
Let Off: 65% to 80%
Mass Weight: 3 lbs 12 oz
IBO Speed Rating: 320 to 328 fps

Patriot Dually
Brace Height 7 5/8”
Draw Length 26” to 31”
Axle to Axle 35 1/8”
Let Off: 65%
Mass Weight: 3 lbs 11 oz
IBO Speed Rating: 326 to 334 fps

RE: I need your advice
 

Like you I put up a hc after this year. I went with the lx and certainly don't regret it.

RE: I need your advice
 

The Patriot VFT is the nicest of what you listed and has the best spec's to me ! If I got a Bowtech .......that would be it !! But I would have to compare it to a Mathews LX or Outback...........comparing it to a FX is a waste of time ! The FX is great for what it is.....but doesn't compare to what your looking at !! And for a rock solid backwall .......the Legacy doesn't have it ! Your comparing dated Mathews offerings to the newest Bowtech's !!

RE: I need your advice
 

Thanks for the detailed reply Cargo. I'm leaning the heaviest toward the Patriot single right now. It seems to be the best compromise between raw speed and somewhat forgiving brace height. The only reason I would lean away from the Justice is because of the lower speeds. My current bow, with my draw length and such will match or exceed what the justice will do now. On equestion I had though, is the pivoting limb pockets that the Patriot has that much better than the fixed ones on the Extreme VFT? What is the advantage(s)? I don't necessarily mind the Patriot dually, but I'm really want 80% letoff and a solid wall. I'm not so sure that I can get the solid wall I'm looking for on the Dually, and it's only available in 65% letoff.

CBM, I meant the Legacy or the LX not the FX sorry. I don't think the Outback would be a good choice for me due to my draw length I would be concerned with severe string angle/pinch. It would be difficult to shoot a string loop with the release I use. I use a Winn free flight. I would be concerned if I had to get a speedy hookup on the loop with that release.

Thanks for the replies everyone. Keep them coming.

Wonder why I haven't heard anything out of the Hoyt guys yet?

Also suprised I haven't heard from Aussie Guy yet too. ;)

RE: I need your advice
 

Mike , That makes more since.......but I'm a little confused ! Do you feel the string angle will be that much different with a 33" Patriot ....over an Outback at 31 1/2 " ? I can't see there being a big difference between the two(especially if you factor in the limb angles) ???

I think the grip difference is one of the biggest factors in between them this year !!

RE: I need your advice
 

GEE WHIZ!!

I think it's obvious from this thread that Hoyt doesn't do enough advertising. Yet Hoyt has bows that are unbeatable in my book. Now before you bowtech and mathews boys start blasting me, I will admit they make some good bows, but Mike, be sure you check out what Hoyt has to offer before you break out the pocket-book, OK?!!!
Good Luck!!

RE: I need your advice
 

RAZORTEC! 33" ata fast and quiet you'll love it.

RE: I need your advice
 

Mike, the advantage of the pivoting limb pocket is that the limb is always tight in the pocket. When backed down, the pocket pivots with the limb. Without pivoting pockets the limb is backed away from the pocket, creating a gap between the limb and pocket.

RE: I need your advice
 

I need to praise the Outback a bit with three words- TOO DAMN SWEET!

RE: I need your advice
 

After reading through your post and all the replies my pick out of the ones you listed would be the Mathews FX.


Why?

Because it is the only one out of the bows you listed that actually is offered in the 31 inch draw length that you specified....and just about everyone else knows that draw length is probably the most important factor when trying to attain a comfortable feel and the utmost accuracy from any given bow.

(That was a rant...and I apologize for it but that is my biggest pet peeve with some of the bows from the various manufacturers when considering that I have a 31 inch draw as well.)

However, I have come to adapt my shooting style in order to be able to shoot a 30 inch draw length bow. You are definitely going to have to go with a string loop to compensate somewhat....and it still won't feel exactly the same but it is better to be a tad short in draw length than a tad long when it comes to accuracy and form.

Now, taking that into consideration, I would probably suggest the Patriot SC as well. The bow has a decent brace height, awesome speed, a nice short (but not too short) axle to axle length and is very well made. If I had to pick just one bow to have then the Patriot SC would be my choice.

....something that MrFritz summarized very nicely :)

RE: I need your advice
 

Pa,

I was beginning to wonder if anyone was going to point out to Mike that none of the Bowtechs that he was interested in, would accomadate a 31 inch draw[X(].

RE: I need your advice
 

The Hoyt line up will out shoot any of those bow on any day. ;)

RE: I need your advice
 

Belle,

People out shoot people, not bows;):D I believe their are still some Vegas records hanging around that were shot with 4 wheeled contraptions[:o]:D

RE: I need your advice
 

I think mathews has discontinued the fx , put 2 cams on that patriot and you've got a nice bow .

RE: I need your advice
 

All you bow guys drive me crazy with the Mathews ,Bowtech ,Hoyte crap.LOL
I shoot 3D ,and hunt with none of the above .Renegade Tominator 2.This bow is truely a forgiving 34 "ata.Quiet as can be ,but doesn't have the 300 fps crap every body is harping on.This is a good hunting bow because that it is what the company makes first and formost.
The deer can't see the name on the bow ,or the arrows you shoot .Pro shops will sell what they deal in and say its the best on the market.
I do like the mathews legacy ,Bowtech,patroit,liberty ,justice,.ect.
Watch a few Bill Jordan video's see how many pass through you see not many where is the conetic energy?in the name not the bow.Bowtech bows do create lots of conetic energy so don't worry if your miss placed shot hits a shoulder blade cause its goin through no matter what at 30 yards.or closer.If you cant hit the broad side of a barn the name wont help you either.
Hope i don't sound to sarcastic,but when hunting its only a matter of good shot placement .

RE: I need your advice
 

Thanks again for the replies. In response to the 31" draw situation, I don't know if it is the cams or whatever on the High Country bow or if it is not truly a 31" draw, (it has the "E" modules on it I think) but I have drawn several one cam bows back and felt comfortable with a 30" draw. Besides, even though it wouldn't be my favorite option, if I had to I could learn to compensate with a string loop. Worst case scenario, If I truly have to have a 31" draw, then I guess it would be the Patriot Dually.

CBM, I'm not sure if the extra 1 1/2" of ata length would make a huge difference in the string angle, but it seems awfully short to me. But as I said, I intend on trying several before purchasing.