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New York bowhunting season

Old 02-01-2004, 09:55 PM
  #21  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
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Default RE: New York bowhunting season

ORIGINAL: doughboysigep

This is all I'll say, I think atlas is way off base - THE ARE TOO MANT DEER IN NY ...PERIOD.



Like before, just because you don't see the deer doesn't mean they aren't there.
That would be true if you are talking about going out randomly and just popping a squat on a tree stump somewhere..........but when you are going 40+ to spots you have hunted for the last 17 years and woods you know like the back of your hand it means the deer aren't there.

There were 16 hunters in our general area opening day of gun season. 2 guys saw deer and one of them killed a doe.........this from an area we have hunted for ages and take 3-5 deer between the 4 guys in my family every opening day for as long as I can remember.

Atlas, you sort of answered you own arguement - there are less hunters in the woods, therefore we need to have more permits/tags for those who do hunt to help control the population.
There is no shortage of hunters anywhere near me. If I saw as many deer as I saw hunters I would be in heaven. There have always been plenty of guys in the woods.

Funny how you believe them on the hunter shortage as well........what proof do you have that this is true other then what they have told you??



seven tags does not necessarily mean 7 deer taken.
No........but it does mean they would be more then happy if you DID kill 7 deer each. I would be more inclined to believe their sob stories about the exploding herd numbers if our seasons weren't so short.........If there are so many deer and they want more killed why isn't there an early muzzleloader season or a longer archery season? Giving out buckets full of tags serves two purposes for them. They get more money out of people buying super sportsman licenses with the wild eyed hopes of getting 5-7 deer this year (yea right) and they get as many deer killed as possible which depletes the herd even further to the delight of insurance companies and other groups that fill the opposite pocket.


I can already tell, no matter what i (or others say) we won't be changing atlas' opinions (however wrong they may be
Can you even see the hypocrisy in your statement?? Probably not so I'll drop you a hint Calling someone closed minded while BLATANTLY expressing that exact trait is a good place to start.
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Old 02-01-2004, 10:03 PM
  #22  
 
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Default RE: New York bowhunting season

ORIGINAL: jimpok61

[8D] I think NY DEC does a fair to middling job. It's not an easy job by any means so I am not too harsh on them. I saw plenty of deer this year and more bucks than normal. It certainly depends a lot about location. Pressure from urban sprawl has a great deal to do with changing herd structure and patterns. When former bedding areas and food lots disappear deer herds must relocate to a more liveable area that is necessary for their survival. When those situations occur you can see former great areas disappear. The herds are in a transition phase to a new area. Many hunters who have seen dwindling #'s in recent years should look closely as to recent sprawl in their areas. Often you will find that your former great area have indeed been affected by sprawl. I do not think it has as much to do with added permits and recent tough winters as it has to do with these transitioning herds. That IMO is why DEC has a difficult job and is performing probably as well as their expertise permits at this stage of herd management capabilities.

I can appreciate and also agree with your comments about herd transition and fluctuations from year to year.

Let me clarify something here. I am not some guy who went out this year and saw diddly squat so I'm gonna cry that all the deer must be gone. I am talking about a trend that has been in effect for decades. I have watched the numbers slowly dwindle over the last 17 years and my dad will take it back 40 years. We hunt the same areas year after year and we know nearly everyone within a reasonable radius of our usual haunts.

When you talk to 50+ guys in your area and many others at clubs and shops from areas all over the place and they all say the same thing I find it a little hard to accept as just a down year or a transition period. This has been a long time in the making and I just hope this is as bad as it gets.
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Old 02-01-2004, 10:16 PM
  #23  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: New York bowhunting season

I think we all can go on forever on how many deer there are in this state. In all reality nobody knows for sure. The DEC has their ways to calculate deer populations. How accurate it actually is I don't know, we can only hope its accurate, and their system is working. Alot of it also depends on what DMU you hunt. Some are less or over populated then the DEC would like. They even admit it on their website under each DMU 2003 prediction. The DEC can't predict the winters weather, nor can they be sure on how many permits will be filled each year in each DMU. But the DEC does continually say license sales are down. I see just as many hunters in the woods now as I have in the past, so I don't know about that. But then again thats in the areas I hunt. But what I don't understand is if the DEC claims license sales are down, what have they done to increase sales?? Its obvious what attracts hunters to the woods are big racks, and plenty of deer. I know I don't see the deer in the woods that I used too. 5-6yrs ago I also saw several deer together. Now 2-3 together is more normal.
What do I feel are the answers? 1, start a QDM program. There's nothing like seeing more big bucks in the woods. 2, If the DEC isn't willing to take those steps, then how about easying up on the permits in lower populated areas. Let the deer bounce back. 3, Extend the season dates like said might. Allow hunters more time in the woods. Extend archery, extend muzzleloader, and even open the Southern regular season on a Saturday. I see NO reason why archery season can't be Sept.1st in north, and Oct. 1st in the south. Do some of you realize most yrs in northern tier, if your season starts Oct. 1st you get exactly 1 lone wknd of archery time. The following wknd northern muzzleloader begins, and black powders plus bows in the woods at the sametime doesn't go well. Its like oil and water. So in those regards the DEC doesn't make much sense to me either!!!!!!!![8D]
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Old 02-01-2004, 10:24 PM
  #24  
 
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Default RE: New York bowhunting season

ORIGINAL: J-bow

If this is the case, why don't you just give it up? It sounds like you're ready to commit suicide.
Ummmmm............because I love to hunt and prefer to fix problems rather then walk away from them or pretend they don't exist


You're doing something radically wrong.......40+ days and that's all you came up with?
I think this is so funny........you know absolutely NOTHING about me or where I hunt or how I hunt and yet your first gut reaction is to blame me. Between my dad, me and my 2 brothers we have nearly a century of seasons in the woods my friend. We have even managed to kill a few deer over the years believe it or not.

Maybe you need to change your tactics or the way you prep youself for a hunt! Even during gun, I go through the same painstaking process I use for bowhunting. Never let your gaurd down!
Thanks for the tip.........man if you had only told me that BEFORE the season I would have seen 100 of them

Seriously though.......among the people I have discussed this with are 3 local taxidermists including the guy doing my mount from this year.......the guy who scored my rack......my wife's cousin who is on staff with Knight + Hale........3 different archery shop owners and countless guys that come and go for leagues and practice........4 guys who keep a record journal for the DEC while in the woods........................I would say that is a pretty good sample group of local hunters of varying levels of experience and skill. 100% agreement on the subject.

So they must not know how to hunt either


Or maybe you need to start hunting a totally new spot! NY State [bIS loaded with Deer!!!
Hunted 4 counties and at least 10 different sets of woods. The DEC must love guys like you.
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Old 02-01-2004, 10:39 PM
  #25  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Default RE: New York bowhunting season

ORIGINAL: BuckAlley

the DEC does continually say license sales are down. I see just as many hunters in the woods now as I have in the past, so I don't know about that. But then again thats in the areas I hunt.
Amen.

Years ago we would be the only tire tracks on the road for miles and the deer were all over the place.........now opening day of gun we had to go in the woods an hour before daylight just to get a spot..........and then fight off all the oncoming flashlights []

They say deer numbers are up and hunter numbers are down.......I think they have it bass ackwards.


I know I don't see the deer in the woods that I used too. 5-6yrs ago I also saw several deer together. Now 2-3 together is more normal.
Sounds familiar.


What do I feel are the answers? 1, start a QDM program. There's nothing like seeing more big bucks in the woods.
They would have to care about the herd and hunters to want to do that.

2, If the DEC isn't willing to take those steps, then how about easying up on the permits in lower populated areas. Let the deer bounce back.
Bounce back??.......After all the years of hard work to eliminate them??
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Old 02-02-2004, 07:39 AM
  #26  
 
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Default RE: New York bowhunting season

[8D] atlasman: I agree with your assessment. That is a long term trend and not a transitioning situation. My only suggestion is that you and all involved from your areas get together and set the stage for your own QDM program. If all people in your areas are fed up with the situation and long time trend it would signal to me that a pooling of ideas is a great start to bringing back your herds. Get things going by hosting a general meeting of all concerned at one of the local hunt clubs. They are all legally represented so be sure their legal eagles are on hand. One fact gathering, discussion meeting might lead to a QDM program that will yield results in the seasons to come. Get to it my friend!!!!
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Old 02-02-2004, 08:28 AM
  #27  
Boone & Crockett
 
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Default RE: New York bowhunting season

THE DEER HERD IS DOWN!! WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY DOWN!!!!! PERIOD!!!! I agree 100% with atlas. That's all I can manage to say about it at the moment. I'm still exhausted from arguing this with doughboy.
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Old 02-02-2004, 09:07 AM
  #28  
 
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Default RE: New York bowhunting season

[8D] I think your herd took up golf. Ask them if they need a 4th. buddy.
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Old 02-02-2004, 09:12 AM
  #29  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Delhi, NY (by way of Chenango Forks)
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Default RE: New York bowhunting season

Can't we just talk about golf. [8D]
I'm going down to NC in March/April. I'll check on the deer herd down there.
I will also contact my friends down in Florida, maybe the deer headed down there early for the winter???
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Old 02-02-2004, 09:29 AM
  #30  
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Default RE: New York bowhunting season

Funny how you believe them on the hunter shortage as well........what proof do you have that this is true other then what they have told you??

In my area the number of hunters has decreased over the past 20 years. I can't say it as fact but when there used to be trucks parked on top of trucks in the 80's there may be a truck or 2 parked on the roads now. Again that is in my localized area. However, there are still a lot of hunters in our DMU (7M), it is one of the most heavily hunted units in the state.
I still will say that the numbers of hunters is going down (don't know it for fact, and i am not going by the DEC). To me, it is pretty easy to see that hunting is not as much a part of the culture as when I was a kid. Kids (for one reason or another) just aren't getting into it like in the past and the average hunter age gets older and older. As the older hunters stop hunting, there are not as many young hunters to take their place (therefore hunter numbers decline). I think if you ask local/national hunting clubs, etc. that trend would hold. Again, not fact, just the way I see it.

If you dislike and mis trust the DEC so much and everyone in your area feels the same way, why not start a local campaign and try and get changes encated or raise a big stink. Maybe the herd is down in your area and with some input from a group of people you can have localized regulations (ie - no doe permits for a year - its been done in some units around here in the past)
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