Good Yardage question
 

Excuse me again, but I am new to bowhunting so I will ask some obvious questions.

With a rifle, I'm comfortable at 300yds and in. With a bow - obviously much different.

What do you all recommend for yardage that will produce a clean shot as well as humane kill?

Thanks for your patience with me.

I will be hunting elk and mule deer - and then when I draw - black bear.

Edited by - ElkhuntingFool on 02/05/2002 11:23:11

Edited by - ElkhuntingFool on 02/05/2002 11:25:32

RE: Good Yardage question
 

Many folks limit themselves to 30 yards with a compound. Traditionalists generally prefer to be within 20. But that doesn't mean a thing, really. The key is how well YOU shoot.

A lot of people say your maximum effective range is where you can keep all your shots on a paper plate. I disagree with that. Shooting at an animal is a lot different than shooting at a paper plate. You don't have your heart thumping in your throat and all that kind of thing going on like you do when that buck steps out.

I think you should limit your shots to where you can keep them all in a group no bigger than a saucer. That gives you a little margin of error for dealing with the heat of the moment.

RE: Good Yardage question
 

Sorry Arthur, but I have to disagree that it all has to do with how well you shoot.

I can keep everything in a group at 50 yards no problem, but will I shoot at a deer more than 25 yards??? No.

I limit my shots to 25 yards. A deer is a living creature, not a stationary target. It can be very unpredictable, and many things may happen between the time that you release the arrow and the time the arrow gets to the deer.



ElkhuntingFool, you didn't specify what you are hunting, I assume it is whitetail deer.

RE: Good Yardage question
 

Yes, EHF, it depends on many factors. I like to limit myself to 35yds on a relaxed whitetail, if he's standing in the open looking the other way. I can group in about 5" there in a hunting situation. I work backward from there, depending on the situation. For example, a walking deer, no farther than 15yds, on an alert deer, about 20yds. After a year or two, you'll be well aware of your limitations, the trick is to not try and stretch your limits in the meantime, and know you wounded and lost an animal because of this.

RE: Good Yardage question
 

i agree with arthur, to an extent. remember this is my opinion every thing has FACTORS. you should beable to shoot 1/3 longer than your effective range. if you practice out to 50 yds and can put your shots in a 6 inch circle you should beable to shoot at 35yds on an animal. personaly i practice at 50 more than i do at 20, and do a lot of practicing at 75 yds. it takes practice lots of practice but i probably shoot 5000 shots every month on an average. best thing is to wait for the best shot and get as cloce as you can. where you hit the animal is the most important part. i dont use regular targets cause animals dont have an x ring on them so i pick a spot and thats where i shoot.
Ron
remember

RE: Good Yardage question
 

I don't have any problem with that BobCo, but I would like to point out one thing about a deer's reaction time that keeps me from setting a hard number across the board for maximum range.

Say a guy shooting a selfbow at 160 fps and is more than comfortable at 20 yards on deer. An arrow from that bow would travel 20 yards in something like .38 second. From a compound shooting 280 fps, an arrow would go 35 yards in the same amount of time. If reaction time of a deer is constant, and shooting accuracy is equal, it would exactly the same shooting the compound at 35 yards on a deer as using the selfbow at 20.

There are simply too many variables in bows, arrows, broadheads and shooting skills, not to mention weather, lighting and the attitude of the animal (relaxed or alert), even the hunters confidence level at the time of the shot, for anyone to lay out a definitive maximum effective range across the board for all situations.

Each and every hunting shot is entirely unique and has to be judged on it's own.

I do think that very few people have the skill to even attempt a hunting shot, even with the most high tech bow, past 30 yards under hunting conditions.

RE: Good Yardage question
 

arthur, yes variable after variable. be well prepared and lots of practice.

i shot my caribou at 35 and my moose at 60yds but i did under estimate the moose yardage i thought it was at 50 but he was quartering away and folowing some cows he dident even know i was there.
Ron

RE: Good Yardage question
 

I understand what you are saying Arthur. But, I needed to make the clarification of a living target vs. a stationary target, and using not using this comparision exclusively.

I am speaking from my experiences on deer. I understand the whole reaction time thing really. But, let me give you an experience that I had a few years back. I shot a buck at 35 yards. I was using my Parker Feather Mag whick was shooting carbon arrows with 75 grain Muzzies at 290 FPS (I have a 33" draw). Anyway, just as I shot (in the instant) the deer took a step. He didn't react to the arrow in anyway, he just took a step, no flinching, nothing. Anyway, the arrow hit just behind the lungs. It really made me upset - really upset. So anyway, I knew where the arrow hit and decided to let it go overnight. To make a long story short, I did find the deer, about 200 yards away.

I know the shot was accurate - because it went exactly where I put it. I got the good shot feeling when I released - I'm sure you know the feeling. But, because of other factors, the arrow did not hit the deer where I wanted it to. After that incidence I swore never to take another long shot like this again, and I won't.

My piece of mind is so much important then taking a hopeful shot even though I can put arrows in a five inch group at 50 yards.

RE: Good Yardage question
 

I agree with the others, 30 yards seems to be the average. That's about all the farther I will shoot at live game. When I first started in archery not that long a go, I thought killing a deer at 40 or 45 yards would be easy. I had no problem grouping arrows at that distance. And as long as I new the distance my bow would hit right were I aimed it. But when I actually started setting my bow up to hunt with I noticed there are some major differences between hunting situations and target practice. Then When I actually started hunting I decided 30 yards would actually be pushing it for me.

Like the others said, there are so many variables that enter into it that it is different for every person. If you have a slower bow with heavier arrows you have to take that into consideration vrs a bow with much better speed. Longer distance shots with a slower bow would be much riskier. Not that it couldn't be done, but it would be at a risk. Your down range energy would drop off quickly and you would have little room for error in yardarge estemation. I use a laser ranger, but realistically you don't have time to range every shot and the deer move around on you making you have to change you point of aim before actually shooting. I like to range objects around my stand as a reference point when I am shooting. This works well up close. Get much beyond 40 yards though and things start to change. With my bow beyond 40 yards a mistake of 3 or 4 yards in estimation could cause some bad results. Having a faster bow would help a little, but not that much, especially if it was louder and harder to shoot or hold at full draw.

You will find that most like to shoot at 30 yards and in on white tails in the north and midwest and east. I think when you get out west things are a bit more open and it might be harder to get them that close, I don't know I live in Michigan. You will also notice that while most limit themselves to around 30 yards, most of the game taken is at 20 yards or closer. Especially with more experienced hunters. I think half the fun is seeing how close you can get the deer before you shoot it. That's what makes bowhunting so much fun and rewarding. It takes a great amount of skill to get deer that close and still be calm enough to take it with an arrow.

I don't know about elk, don't have any here so I never worried much about it.

Paul

RE: Good Yardage question
 

Well I do not have the experience the others have with a bow, but I will throw in my 2 cents worth anyhow from a newbies standpoint. First of all the longest shot I will probably ever take on a deer unless I got a new bow that shoots faster than anything made today would be 30 yards. That being said, I made a decision before this past bow season that I would not take any shot over 20 yards,the reason was I only had a high confidence level shooting targets at 30 and figured subtracting 10 yards from that would make up for any nerves I may rattle releasing the trigger at a deer. I have already started practicing for next year and if I get to a level I am comfortable with at 40 yards I will extend my max range to 30 yards.

The Tazman

RE: Good Yardage question
 

Oh man, another can of worms opened!

RE: Good Yardage question
 

BobCo, I do know that 'good shot' feeling. Wonderful feeling, ain't it?

I also know the depths of the 'bad hit' feeling, and I do everything in my power to keep from feeling that way, ever again.

That your deer would have taken that step at the instant you released and caused your arrow to hit too far back whether you'd have been at 10 yards or at 40. Maybe I should also include that split second between the time you commit to the shot and the arrow leaving the bow into my time of flight number. Anyway, the important thing is you did what you needed to do after the hit and found the deer. I'm sure you didn't get much sleep that night.

Your points on a living, breathing animal doing the unexpected at exactly the wrong moment are well made. Those rascals never have done what I expected them to do.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Good Yardage question
 

I agree with you Arthur, there is a time factor in the commitment of the shot and the arrow leaving the bow. Good point. But, I think that you would have to admit there is a difference of a deer taking a step at 10 yards to one taking a step at 40 yards, and the time it takes an arrow to get to it.

And you're right, I didn't sleep that night, or concentrate on anything that evening. I have learned from this experience.

RE: Good Yardage question
 

there is a lot of sense in what everybody has said
As for me tho I will not take a shot at a deer over 30 yrds but 20 yrds is my prefered distance.

RE: Good Yardage question
 

I think everyone's points are well taken. As a new bowhunter my slant is, I feel absolutely confident @ 20 yds. 30 yds looks to be a long way in the woods. That last 10 yds is a long ways. Allot can happen from 20 to 30 yds. I notice my bow is pretty flat shooting to 23 yds, & than to 30 it starts to drop much faster. I'm also very calm & relaxed @ the range. Not so w/ deer around. That does change things. I don't see a need to shoot beyond 20 yds in the thick woods.

Phil.

RE: Good Yardage question
 

i guess befor everyone jumps me i should add that my bow is shooting at 327fps with a 425gr arrow.

RE: Good Yardage question
 

You should just keep on practicing going out furter and further you will be able to tell how you feel about the yardages.

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: Good Yardage question
 

I find 20 to 30 yards to be comfortable.

You just need to shoot, shoot, and shoot some more until you find a range that is good for you. Remember that as time goes buy, you will find yourself comfortable at longer yardages, but a good kill range for you will be different than that which you shoot at a target.

RE: Good Yardage question
 

For deer size game no more then 30yrs, but something like a Elk & Moose & Bear 40yrs I think it has more to do with the time of the shot.... Like the others have said Heart...Heat....Cold...Rain....wind.. I shoot from sunup to sunset... and I think of myself as a good shot, but no more then 30yrs for me

Live to Hunt.....Hunt to Live
NAHC & BuckMaster Member

RE: Good Yardage question
 

For deer size game no more then 30yrs, but something like a Elk & Moose & Bear 40yrs I think it has more to do with the time of the shot.... Like the others have said Heart...Heat....Cold...Rain....wind.. I shoot from sunup to sunset... and I think of myself as a good shot, but no more then 30yrs for me

Live to Hunt.....Hunt to Live
NAHC & BuckMaster Member

RE: Good Yardage question
 

I have bow hunted for about 35 years now,25 yrds is the max. for me.
I can consestanly pack in baseball at 30 and 35 but I lost two deer years ago at about 30 yrds because of the unpredictable hunting situation factor.
since then 25 yrds. has been max. and I have not had a loss.
it will all come with years of hunting with your heartbeat.
there are a lot of things that happen.
just my 2 cents,there are 98 more.


I am not a hunter I am a whitetail population reduction specialest

remember keep your back to the sun, your knife sharp, and your powder dry.

RE: Good Yardage question
 

This was my first year bowhunting and I stuck a bobcat at about 22 yards and thats where im comfortable. I am ok with shooting 20-30 yards without missing. I was afraid I wouldn't be able to keep still enough to hit an animal. Well I lost that fear after making a good clean bowkill on an animal smaller than a deer. One of the best things to do,if possible is take a broadhead target,get in your stand with your hunting clothes on and everything, and practice every situation you think that animal approached. When I saw that bobcat sitting there,he was just to the right of a situation where I practiced, so I knew exactly how far and everything.

RE: Good Yardage question
 

30 yards is the farthest I would shoot with confidence......but I usually set up where I have 20 yards shots. Like most said here, go with what feels comfotable. Elk and Mule deer are larger animals so target is bigger than Whitetails.

RE: Good Yardage question
 

DG3, yes. I am talking about grouping with broadheads. I assume everyone else is too. After all, that's what our arrows are wearing when we go hunting. Right? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Good Yardage question
 

i agree with a lot of the responses here, but, i think if you do practice, and you are a veteran bowhunter longer shots can be made. the shots i am talking about are 35 up to 50 yards. some folks think they can take longer shots at elk and mule deer &quot;because&quot; they are bigger animals. i dont like that logic. they may not be able to react to the arrow as fast, making shot placement less critical, due to a slower reaction time.
i have taken several deer past 35 yards, and would not hesitate to take a shot at deer out to 45 yards that are calm. i find that the further the deer from me, the less likely it is to react to the sound of the bow. i dont care how much string silencers and tricks you use, a deer can hear your bow. it may be quiet to you, but probably sounds like two frying pans to a deer.
speed is not as important as accuracy. i take a bow capable of shooting extremely fast, martin fury, 325+ and shoot a heavy arrow at 270. less vibration, less noise, and plenty of K E to finish the job. shoot the most forgiving hunting rig you can assemble, fashion and fad mean nothing to deer, and shoot it as much as you can. participate in club 3d events, and you will find your ability will increase drastically in a short period of time.
bottom line is, shoot what you are comfortable shooting. dont let pride get in the way of good judgement. practice yardage estimation equal to bow practice. you cannot hit it if you do not know how far it is. good luck to you.

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: Good Yardage question
 

I shoot a recurve, and 15 yards is ideal...20 is good. In the right situation, with good light and a relaxed deer, 25 is acceptable for me. It's not that I'm not accurate further, it's just that at 170fps a deer 30 yards away has .53 seconds to react.

An alert deer has time to make a sammich and have a cold beer in that amount of time. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>