Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

I just saw the most amazing picture. A very famous surgeon here in Springfield, IL just showed me a pic of his gun-kill over the weekend. He was hunting in Pike County and shot during broad daylight what he thought to be a nice atypical buck. He climbed out of his stand, flipped the deer over and guess what... no penis or testicles. Fortunately this happened to this man because rather than just gutting the deer and ditching the pile, he did a thorough autopsy. What he found was a very rudimentary, small vagina, and no ovaries. He also looked thoroughly and did not find any internal, undescended testicles. He has already contacted " Outdoor Illinois" and they are probably going to do a piece about the deer. I' m not sure if the state is going to do any chromosomal tests on the deer to find out if it is male or female gene-wise. This doc has promised to email me a pic once he get the film digitized. I promise to post it when it becomes available. One last note, he kept the rudimentary vagina an put it in formaldehyde as an up-yours to anyone who doubts him. Good luck to all in the late season. I also have a great pic of my friends bowkill to post. I' ll get around to that once I get home.

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

You crazy doctors/surgeons. I knew of does with antlers, but have never heard of anyone doing an autopsy. That is some good info. It would be good to do a chromosome test. Would be neat to find out whats wrong with the thing.

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

It does happen every now and then

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

Yep, it' s happened before and I' m sure it won' t be the last time. Occasionally they grow a pretty impressive set of antlers too! And from what I' ve seen/read they usually dont' shed their velvet.

From what I' ve learned, does with antlers are somewhat of " hermaphrodites" so to speak. They have severe chemical imbalances which leads to the misformation of their genitalia and the formation of antlers.

Crazy stuff.

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

yea, ive heard of it, kinda like seeing a hen turkey with a beard, i know a guy who got one.....

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

I' ve heard of this before. I was just thinking what a sight it would be if you found a nice buck mounting another nice buck in the woods. I' d be pretty confused. [:o]

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

I posted about a week back in the Crazy Deer thread, That I had the same thing happen years ago. Shot a 4 point and it turned out to be a doe. I told the PA game commision and they didn' t raise an eyebrow. While certainly uncommon it' s not so rare that anyone would do a piece on it. Unless it was a trophy type deer.

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

the best friend of a guy in our church shot a " buck" this past weekend and when he went to dress it -- it actually had both body parts hanging down. it actually had a male and female organ. it also still had full velvet on the antlers. they took pictures i will see if i can get a hold of one. wierd stuff[:o]

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

the rossie o' donnald deer , cant make up its mind what it is

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

never a dull moment

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

lmao that' s a disturbing image.

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

Yeah that would be pretty weird to see two bucks going at it, unless you throw Michael Jackson in the mix.

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

last year one of my buddies shot a 5+5 mule deer doe. that was weird

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

wait till I get that pic posted... it is a very interesting rack.

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

some buck sent company or something has a pic on one of their products a doe gettin mounted by a buck, that is getting mounted by another buck. anyone seen that? where is the line between animal studies and animal porn?:D

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

ive seen that pic! kinda weird. i myself have never seen a " Buck/Doe" my uncle claims that down by his place there is 3-4 of them, he says they have nontypical racks usually. hes a proffessor so i wont doubt him

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

So... the real question here is.... What was the cause of death?! LOL!

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

Well it is an amazing thiing.I' de like to see the pics too/

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

we use to get the odd one or two back home they call them a hummel. and they have both sex organs, [ red deer] and do they stink...

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

Uh huh.. sure he did... uh huh ... whatever you say doc. By the way... what' s a " rudimentary vagina" ? Either you got one or you don' t,... if you know what I mean.

Uh huh.. sure he did... whatever you say doc. By the way... there' s laws about such behavior... well at least if the animal is alive... it should carry over to dead too.

So, what do you think, is this a Gay Deer or a Lesbian deer?

OK... OK... how big was the rack?

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

:D....friggin' David. I just spit coffee all over my desk....:D

Interesting story....I have heard of antlered does before but never in such detail. I would be interested to see the pics as well.

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

sounds like a few women running around up here in tidioute!!!

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

David- by " rudimentary" I meant that it was extremely small and not connected to a uterus... ie the deer had never been pregnant. I hope to get the pics for you guys early next week.

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

I still say there' s laws about investigating things to that degree.[:o] And Tell me.... just HOW did this doc determine " Extremely Small" . Yes sir, there' s laws against that.... except maybe in West Virginia.

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

not as uncommon as you might think.

According to Dr. Leonard Lee Rue III, in " The Deer of North America" , (not word for word, but close)the highest recorded population was at Camp Wainwright in Alberta. Canada. The camp occupies 965 square miles. The hunts took place betwwn 1968 & 1982. In that time, 665 adult bucks and 517 does were harvested. Of the 517 does, 8 had velvety-covered antlers ranging in in lenght fomr 7/16 inch to 9 1/2 inches. A ratio of about 1 out of every 65 does. None had shed their velvet, and milk was obatined from them, showing that they were breeding females.

There are basically 3 categories of antlered does:

1) (most common) - antlers never harden, nor does velvet ever come off. Does usually lose most or all of their antlers due to freezing. Doe can breed and produce milk, and is a true female, but her femalel hormaones are usually not produced in sufficient amounts.

2) basically a male, but it' s sex oprgand are abnormal. Usually has both penis and vagina, but scrotum is not visible because the testicles are inside the body cavity. Never bears young. Antlers are like a typical males, often well developed with tines. The neck does not swell like a normal bucks would.

3)Very rare. It occurs when a tumor in the doe secretes male hormaones. Both male & female organs may be present, and the antlers may or may not complete their developement. Most often, they remain in velvet.


A hunter who shoots any antlered doe should immediatle contact his game department so that the deer and its reproductive organs can be saved and studied.

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

I think Hillary would grow antlers if she could. She hasBalls, doesn' t she?

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

yeah, but they' re Bill' s, and she keeps them in her purse:D

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

That's nothing PABhunter, friggin' Dave just made me swallow some Grizzly fine cut natural smokeless juice. Now I can be assured that I have been thoroughly wormed thanks to David.

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

This occurs more often than most of us think.

As a side note, there is a one anltered cow elk in my 700+ animal research herd. I could not determine whether this cow had ever been pregant, never saw her a calf. In three years I've never seen the antler when it wasn't in velvet.

Mature bull elk (without a harem) frequently pair up and mount each other, generally with one bull doing most of the mounting. I'm assuming the "mountor" is dominant over the "mountee." However, turnabout seems to be fair play with some of these "pairs" with the "mountee" becoming the "mountor."

Geez, that sounds bad. :eek: I hope I haven't offended any of those guys north of the border, especially those guys in the red coats. (I better leave this alone before it gets worse.) [&:]

I've never noticed penetration by these bulls. Mounting usually lasts no more than a minute. The pairs may spend hours together, I didn't keep check to see if they stayed together for more than a few hours.

I've got lots of interesting nd informative deer, elk, turkey, duck and goose biology/behavior and hunting techniques/tips on the "T.R.'s Tips" board if you guys are interested. Come on over and join us.

I'm not subscribing to this topic; I get enough "notifications" as it is. So, if you have questions or comments come on over, e-mail me direct, or send me a private message.

Good hunting and I hope you all have a Merry Xmas,

T.R.

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

i know of two antlered does taken in the same area i wonder if its coincidence or if its passed down. its also an area where there are alot of hybrid deer, mule deer and whitetails interbred.

RE: Antlered Doe... believe it or not
 

hahaha love the hillary clinton bit... this also sound like some "girls" i know of questionable identity