Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

According to a article on Bowsite, www.bowsite.com On 11-20-03 Pope and young voted and relaxed the 65% let-off rule for their entries. It starts 1-1-04 and is retroactive ( meaning pst entries may now be entered) Any entries with a let-off greater than 65% will have an star next to the listing.

Thats all the info I can remember. If you want to read the whole release go to Bowsite.

Good Luck!

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

Actually, go to Pope and Young' s website and get it straight from the horse' s mouth.

www.pope-young.org

It' s in the Club News section.

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

I fear what may be next![:' (]

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

It' s about time they did something. They really had to in my opinion or as the years go by P&Y would face their eventual demise...Jim

BC, Not sure about your reference. It' s early and I must have missed something.

Jim

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

That change was due. Sorry for you purests but it was needed.

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

BC, don' t worry about it. Everyone that was opposed to the change did the best they could to make their point of view known. All we can do now is ride the train to the end of the line and see where it takes us.

Frankly, like Jimimac suggests, techie bowhunting was going to go on this track regardless of what P&Y did. I wish they' d remained true to their principles but that' s water under the bridge now.

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

That' s too bad.

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

I have noticed that rules seem to change as the " Baby Boom" generation,me included, gets older. Personally I like the change cause, as we all age, things like arthritis and other muscle and bone degeneration really takes a toll. When I try to draw and hold, even at 53#s draw weight, it really takes a toll. I don' t know if I will ever get a P&Y qualifier, but they are in the woods that I hunt. But I would hate that it didn' t make the books because I' m an old and tired Veteran, that needs a little more let off. But in the big scheme of things......who cares!

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

I agree... I' m 23, weigh about 150lbs and the simple fact for me is that I' ve always had thin, relatively weak arms. I don' t see why I should have to go work out at a gym just to qualify... I mean you big strong guys [:o] that still get in with no star next to your name, your still distinguished for how much you pull back... so what' s the matter with giving recognition to other people for what they kill?

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

I have somewhat mixed feelings about this, which is mostly due to the fact that I don' t care to have my name in the books that much. I personally don' t feel the need to see my name in it. If other people want their name in their, that' s fine. A P&Y buck is quite an accomplishment, and I don' t blame anyone for wanting other people to know about it.

On one hand, I can see why they imposed the let-off rule. It doesn' t seem like bows will advance much farther than they have to me, but people thought the same thing 100 years ago. Look how it' s changed since then. In 50 years, certain bows might be the next thing to guns. Who knows? Maybe a limit is a good idea?

On the other hand, I don' t see it making much difference now, or in the future(if nothing changes radically). I really believe I' ll be able to shoot just as many P&Y bucks with 75% let-off as I would 60%. I shoot a bow that would be P&Y legal, but I don' t shoot it so I can make the books. I shoot it because I like it. If I loved the feel of a bow with 80% let-off(which I don' t, but you get the idea), I would shoot that.

There are two sides to this debate. I think both sides have good points, and neither is right or wrong. We can argue about it, but it won' t change much now. Therfore, I' m not gonna worry about it!:D

peashooter

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

Do any of you feel that P&Y-listed game taken with accurests, 100% letoffs, crossbows, 500 fps arrows, shotgun-arrows...perhaps any weapon...represents game taken with " ARCHERY" equipment? Because as the bar is lowered, that' s the direction the entries are headed. I feel this ruling is a slap in the face to bowhunters and to their sport. [:' (]

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

In a small sense it doesn' t faze me because I wil continue to shoot 65% or even less as anything more is uncomfortable and less accurate to shoot, at least for me. I really don' t understand the ideas of a high letoff bow being easier to shoot because they are not! They only allow the archer to hold at full draw a bit longer, but the draw weight still must be pulled at some point.[&:]

In the larger scheme of things, first.... I truly believe that manufacturers now dictate what we as archers will shoot and have to choose from.

2nd.........I also believe in the not so distant future, Pope & Young minimum standards of entering a buck into the book will be raised......perhaps rightly so!;)

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

A ' bit longer' Coug??

Concept 99, 99% let-off. That leaves you holding 7/10ths of a pound at full draw for a 70 pound bow. Fer cripes sake, you could draw the bow, hook the string over your ear and have a smoke while you wait for something to come along!

At least you could draw it then hang the bow on a hook by the string cuz the bow itself certainly weighs a lot more than the holding weight. Might take some practice to learn how to get the bow into action from being hung like that, but it' d sure be possible. There are plenty enough nutcases calling themselves ' bowhunters' that there will be someone to try it and write an instruction manual.

A bit longer? LOL! Thank goodness for the asterisk! :)

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

Jim, I have not used traditional gear to hunt with for along time now. I have been bowhunting long enough to remember all of the arguements with P&Y when compounds were first allowed into the book.

The reason for my response to this is that I fear how much farther they will eventually go. What will be next? Crossbows? Or maybe pickup trucks like B&C allows.

Like ArthurP says, we fought our fight, we lost. Somebody had to win in this one. I will continue hunting with my 65% compound until I decide to go back to recurves.

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

Thanks BC. I hear you about the technology and where does P&Y go next.

For me, what the P&Y club does with their rules is of no consequence because I highly doubt that I would enter an animal anyway. If he' s on the wall...that' s good enough for me.

When I made my previous post, I was just coming at it from a sign of the times angle. The harsh reality of it is if P&Y didn' t change they would become less and less significant in the archery world as more " book" size bucks fall each year that can' t/couldn' t be entered.

Jim

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

Just to stir the pot a little, I believe that P&Y should simply list the score, hunters name and type of weapon...compound, traditional or crossbow. There, I said it and I' m glad!

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

Steve, your right, if they are going to segregate, might as well list the weapon and the letoff.....would give interesting data on weapon choices of today' s archers....our little poll here indicated the majority still shoots 65%, at least majority in one class of letoff, overall the majority still shoots 70% and under.

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

AK, you speak of lowering the bar... People will work twice as hard to get the bar lowered to their level than the amount of work it would take them to achieve the standard in the first place. It' s not politically correct any more to hold yourself to a higher standard and dedicate yourself to achieving excellence. Such people are called ' elitists' now.

Remember when we were called ' bowhunters' instead? ;)

Unfortunately, when it comes to the crossbow or accurest, I' m afraid P&Y no longer can take an effective leadership role in opposition to that stuff. Where' s the credibility? A 100% letoff compound with an asterisk is fine, but a crossbow isn' t?

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

totally agree. like you 65%' ers say. ya' ll can just keep shootin your 65%, and still be happy, and all of us that shoot over 65% can be happy to. :D
why can' t you guys just accept the new rule and be happy? what are you " purest" goin to do, protest the decision?[8D]

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

At least we ' purists' understand the concept of good spelling and capitalization. LOL :D

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

bogobble, I am still happy.:D See the smiley face?

Honestly, I have no problem with using 75% letoff, if thats what you like.

P&Y has just opened the door to 99% letoff bows. Crossbows will naturally come next.

More and more people will be forced to use crossbows in the near future also.

Why, you ask? Spend a season or two letting down with a 80-99% letoff bow....now say goodbye to your shoulders as you once knew them.

You seem to have an easy time throwing stones at guys who like the rules to stay put.

Tell all of us " purists" why you feel the need to shoot 75%, 80%. or more letoff? Is it your fragile construction? Exactly what reason do you have for doing that?

And if your reason is no more than personal preference....that is fine. Your opinion is every bit as important as mine.

BUT, why do people with your opinion think that a long established " PRIVATE" club should bend to your will?

Don`t like baseball.....try football, or badminton!

One more thing.....now that the rule has been changes to your satisfaction.....just how many trophys do you have that can be retroactively entered into the book, if you so desire?

This is a question that I would really, honestly, like an answer to. I mean, you are obviously so happy over this rule change, surely it is going to benefit you, right?

So what is the answer......just how many P&Y bucks do you have lined up on the wall?

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

Crossbows in Pope & Young? No way I hope! A bow is still defined as hand held and hand drawn........the crossbow does not qualify in this regard. The only thing that a crossbow has resembling to a bow is this......it propells an arrow, crossbolt, etc. via a string.

I have a question to indoor target shooters or those that know...........since I am not an indoor target shooter, what letoff do most prefer? Last I knew in my area, even with the long stabilizers, scopes, vbars, etc. almost all shot 50% bows then. I assume most shoot 60-65% still rather than a high letoff bow. There must be a good reason for this!

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

doesn' t make me any difference about the ruling as I never see deer that big. LOL. oh well, i used to shoot a 80% let off but recently went to another bow and it was not offered in that so i bought a 65%. I think that whatever letoff you shoot is a very minimal factor when it comes to bowhunting because your still have to out beat the deers nose, get a big animal close enough to shoot, spend the time in the woods, pull your bow back, not get buck fever and shake like a squirrel eating a nut, don' t get target panach, etc. get the point. let off is just a minor factor when it comes to the grand scheme of things in the bowhuters world. I don' t and never will agree with the crossbow entries into p&y though. I think they should have there own category. who knows one day I may not be able to pull my bow back and be forced to use one. thats the wonderful thing about hunting is there is something for everyone. crossbow shooters, pistol shooters, traditional shooters, compound shooters, rifle hunters, muzzle loaders, etc. well, enough said this is just my 2 cents.

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

no Big country, I ain' t really happy over the rule change, my post was not meant to be taken seriously, I was just pickin at you guys. as I' ve said before, it makes no difference to me what P/Y does, I doubt I' ll ever even kill a book buck, and if I did I would put it on my wall, not in a book.:D
and I doubt very seriously P/Y will ever let xbows in, and I' ve never even heard of a 99% letoff bow and doubt there will ever be one. I really don' t think P/Y will continue to allow higher letoff bows, but like i said, my book is the only one that counts to me.;)

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

OK, guess I`m too old to recognise funning!

There is already a 99% letoff bow. I have seen one at a club I belong to. The owner of it drew the bow, pointed it straight at the ground, and let go of the riser! It stayed at full draw. Just the weight of the bow was enough to keep it there.

Pretty sure it was called a Concept bow?

Don`t know if I will ever put one in the book either. Got 4 that would breeze in if I so desired. All taken fair and square.

I will continue to hunt my way regardless of what P&Y does in the future, but I feel that crossbows and pickups are only a matter of time now.

RE: Wow! Pope & Young just relaxed let-off rules!
 

Kind of a no brainer there considering the fact that most manufacturers only mad bows with 65% or less because of the P&Y rule. Some bows offered today don' t even come with less than 65% or can' t achieve it even with modules

I do agree with this. We as bowhunters have spent so much time questioning the ethics of gun hunters (if you don' t believe it just look at all the posts on this board) and demanding the same recognition as they get that we have failed to see that we are really contradicting ourselves in regards to the point system. Why, if equallity is demanded, is the minimum score for P&Y in the 120 class and the B&C is in the 170 class. Where is the truism in that?