Another hunter killed
 

http://journalstandard.com/articles/...ews/news33.txt

RE: Another hunter killed
 

My prayers go out to his family. I hate to say it, but how in the world do you mistake a person wearing blaze orange of being an elk!!!!!! The guy who killed him at a minimum should never be allowed to hunt again!!!!! The man is an idot and a slob hunter!

RE: Another hunter killed
 

I' ll go one better Taz. He' s a criminal, and needs to be in jail. Then have all his hunting priviledges revoked for life. There' s no way a reasonable thinking person should make that mistake. And if he' s got some mental disorder, never should have been issued a license.

And, every dime he makes in jail (don' t even get me started on that topic) should go to the family of the man killed. Then, a portion of his pay when he gets out of jail should go to any kids the guy had until they are 21 years old or out of college, if they go.

Am I being too rough??

RE: Another hunter killed
 

what a tragedy, My heart and prayers go out to his family and to us all. It is a shame that this is the kind of press that gets mainstreamed more often then the good things us hunters do.

RE: Another hunter killed
 

Thats just terrible. I read the article and it seems he was a realy liked and loved fella. HOW DO YOU MISTAKE A BLAZE ORANGE TARGET FOR A BIG 600+LB ELK BROWN ELK?!?!?!?!?!

RE: Another hunter killed
 

I wouldn' t jump to too many conclusions before all the facts are known. Maybe the shooter is colorblind. I hear guys with colorblindness see blaze orange as tan.

It' s a sickening thing to happen though.

RE: Another hunter killed
 

Even a colorblind hunter (with limited brains and common sense) should know the difference between a two-legged hunter and a 4 legged 600 lb elk, blaze orange or no blaze orange. Shootings like this are unexcusable.

RE: Another hunter killed
 

You' re absolutely right, formula1. I didn' t say colorblindness is an excuse for violating one of the primary safety rules of hunting: be sure of your target and know what' s behind it.

I was just addressing the questions about how someone couldn' t tell the difference between blaze orange and an elk.

RE: Another hunter killed
 

Some of you guys crack me up...like this event is just unbelievable and you can' t fathom how a guy could do such a dumb thing but I see yo yo' s who are self proclaimed hunters all the time and it is a wonder to me that we don' t read more articles like this. I don' t go near the woods during gun season and am cautious all the time during archery season for gun toting poachers. The eyes can play funny tricks on the eyes of an idiot with buck (bull) fever and a gun in his hand and 100+ yards between he and the intended target. It is a very sad tragedy and my heart goes out to the family. However, as unfortunate as it may seem, this won' t be the last story like this that we read in the upcoming months. Let' s be careful out there.

RE: Another hunter killed
 

Regardless of the " yo-yo' s" you' ve encountered, this is not only unbelievable, but should never be tolerated. If we don' t police ourselves, we won' t have this tradition very long.

RE: Another hunter killed
 

[font=" Tahoma" ] talk about a tragity i swear that guy should goto waly world get him some glasses this crap anit posed to be happing i would hate to of known the guy who shot him he should got o jail for life and milked for every penny hes worth cuz anit nothing gonna bring him back [:@] if that keeps on happning we anit gonna be able to hunt

RE: Another hunter killed
 

Very sad and a tragedy. As Arthur says........wait and see. The article states the shooter was a member of the party???

Accidents happen period, sometimes a result of stupidity but accidents still happen!

RE: Another hunter killed
 

[:@]When you put a man in your sights and pull the trigger its either manslaughter
or murder. It' s no accident[X(]. Anyone who can' t follow the basic rules of firearms safety has no business owning, much less shooting a gun[:@]. It will be interesting to see how the facts play out in this story. It says in the article that the
guy mistook the victim for an elk. If that turns out to be true he will probably be charged with manslaughter at the minimum. It' s sad to say but it seems that the woods are full of people who see movement and shoot. I' ve heard plenty of accounts of guys shooting stumps that they thought were deer, or just shooting at movement in the bushes[:o]. Every time I hear a story like that, it really pisses me off!!![:@][:@]. We have a hard enough time with anti hunters... then you have something like that happen.

>>>---DAVIDP---SILERCITY,NC--->

RE: Another hunter killed
 

I hate to say this, but I don' t think hunting incidents are accidents. They' re negligent, and should be held accountable. Just because it' s unfortunate, and he/she didn' t mean to do it doesn' t mean they are accidents. They still broke the self-imposed rules every responsible hunter is, and should be, held by.

And most states are starting to realize that and charge perpetrators of these incidents with negligent manslaughter.

I mean, think about it. Write down a list of possible accidents that could occur. Then think about it and see if you can' t find that it is simply negligence on the part of the hunter.

The only one I could actually come up with is, you' re walking thru the woods and the ground opens up and swallows you.

There' s not an animal out there worth making this kind of error.

RE: Another hunter killed
 

Unbelievable. I hear about this crap every season and I just cannot understand
how someone can mistake a human for game. I know the woods can play tricks
on our eyes but that is no excuse. Throw his a** in jail.

The only positive thing that can come of this is that there will (hopefully) be
one less brain-dead jacka** out there in the woods.

RE: Another hunter killed
 

I' ll keep a look out to see what happens to the shooter since their were basically local people involed, if i find more info ill post it

RE: Another hunter killed
 

Climbing a fence with a loaded gun and having it go off

Raising or lowering a loaded gun to a tree and having it go off

Dropping a gun or falling and having it go off


These are accidents


Pointing, aiming at and shooting a human being with a gun is murder. All that needs to be decided is if it was premeditated.

Shooting a gun carries with it a tremendous amount of responsibility.......if you are not prepared to accept that......don' t pull the trigger.

Worst of all in a situation like this is I would LOVE to hear where his aim point was..........I pick out a tiny spot and wait for that leg to move forward if possible and then and only then do I shoot. Exactly what part of a 2 legged man in a orange vest was he trying to put that bullet through.....thinking he was tucking one behind the shoulder of a 600 lb Elk?? I don' t care if the guy was crawling on all fours bugling away like a monster bull..........there is NO WAY that a man can be mistaken for ANY animal unless you were just shooting at noise or movement......in either case, have fun in jail.

He should have reloaded that muzzleloader and blew his own head off to rid this wonderful world of his dangerous stupidity.

I have ZERO sympathy for idiots like this.

RE: Another hunter killed
 

" Climbing a fence with a loaded gun and having it go off"

" Raising or lowering a loaded gun to a tree and having it go off"

NEITHER of those are accidents. They are both brainless violations of basic firearms safety rules and plain negligence.

" Dropping a gun or falling and having it go off" Now, THAT could-might-maybe be an accident, if you' re handling the loaded gun with the safety ON.

I agree that we should be upset by this kind of thing. I agree that it' s inexcusable. I agree it can' t be tolerated. But I' m not about to jump in and join the lynching party. He' ll have his day in court.

RE: Another hunter killed
 

Stupid, negligent, inexcusable, etc? Yes! Criminal? That remains to be determined. A legal act that results in the death of another can be criminal if negligence, recklessness, etc, was involved. If the subject who did the shooting was under the influence of alcohol or drugs, or it is determined the shooting was intentional, burn him.

However, it appears that the hunting party did not a have " mission plan" that clearly informed all members of the party where all members would be positioned. It is also possible the party did not establish rules of movement. If there was a known plan, and the means to communicate (which there should have been) and the shooter ignored the plan and knew that there would or could be a member of the hunting party in the shooter' s line of fire; then burn him and hang him too.

It is too " media" to prematurely assume anything other than stupendous stupidity. But it appears that all members of the hunting party may share negligence. If true, all have culpability in the act, which includes the deceased. He may have contributed to bringing about his demise.

Until all facts are known, I feel for the deceased and his family and friends, but I also feel for the shooter, the deceased' s longtime friend. The poor guy has to be going through mental hell and anguish. And, if a decent person, he will live with the anguish for the rest of his life.

I (personally) will run the imbecile (shooter) down some slack until all facts are known.

There, but for the grace of God, go I.

RE: Another hunter killed
 

I respect your view, but, only the shooter is to blame for this. All of your ideas are good as far as a plan goes. But you and I both know, especially when hunting elk, that most plans go out the window at the first bugle.

What it all boils down to is this. The shooter DID NOT identify his target. The shooter DID point his firearm at a target he should not have. The shooter DID NOT keep his finger off the trigger until it was safe to shoot. These are the most basic of firearms safety rules.

I feel for the guy too. But I feel worse about the wife and kids that will never, ever see him again. I feel bad because he' ll never get to share his passion with his kids. He' ll never get to share OUR passion with his grandkids. Nothing can make up for that.




Art, you are absolutely, 100% correct!!!

RE: Another hunter killed
 

about 10 years ago I was out hunting in the mountains. Working my way up a small trail in dense fog. the ground was a little damp so I didn' t make much noise. I was moving slowly. Move, wait, move, wait. then up ahead i heard some noise. It sounded like something tearing at a bush. I waited. I eased forard very slowly taking 10-20 m,inutes to move just a few yards. I started to see movement and the brown colors of fur. I had my rifle aimed and was waiting. don' t know if the fog suddenly let up or what, but I was staring down my barrel at a man 25 yards away. the trail emptied out onto a small clearing next to the fireroad. He was loading some stuff into his pickup. I went home. That even changed hunting for me quite a bit. At least two lives would have been destroyed if I had pulled the trigger. It wasn' t cautious careful safety minded hunting that prevented it. It was luck. When I hunt I wear a blaze orange hat and vest, even though you are only required to wear a hat here in VA. When I am going to or from my stand at night, I will be using a flashlight. I don' t want to be the guy on the other end of the barrel.
I don' t ever want to be around an accident like that.

David

RE: Another hunter killed
 

They are all accidents because the gun was not purposely discharged. Yes they are all stupid and preventable (all accidents are) but none the less.......in all those cases the hunter didn' t intend or want to fire his gun.

When you point a gun at something and pull the trigger it is NO accident. He killed what he was aiming at just like he wanted to..........the problem lies with his stupidity in not identifying his target. He shot the guy on purpose.........he just did or didn' t know it was a guy.

A mistake is not the same as an accident.

RE: Another hunter killed
 

You can call ' em ' accidents' if you want to, atlasman. I most certainly do not agree with you.

RE: Another hunter killed
 

I' m with you, Arthur. That' s just plain negligence on the part of a hunter, not accidents. Accidents are defined as something that is not preventable. Each of those scenerios are preventable.

As a Hunter Education instructor, we cover this area alot in the classes we teach. Several years ago, it was common-place to call such incidents as accidents, and in most cases, there was no prosecution in these cases. However, it has finally dawned on people that it' s rare that one of these incidents can be classified as a true accident. It' s 99.999999% of the time negligence on the part of some person that has caused the situation. And they are prosecuting these cases now based on that fact.

If you' re pulling a loaded rifle up into a stand, or lowering it from the stand, you' re negligent if it goes off. It should never have been loaded. If a gun goes off while crossing a fence, you' re negligent, it never should have been loaded. If you shoot at something that has not been 100% identified, you' re negligent.

Remember when the anti gun crowds used to (still do) say that guns were at fault for all the school shootings, and everything else that occurs? If you believe the above type incidents are accidents, and unpreventable, then you surely believe that guns are at fault in general, not the person using it.

RE: Another hunter killed
 

Nor do I.

RE: Another hunter killed
 

I think we are all comparing apples and oranges here...........or there is some confusion and we are all saying the same thing in different ways.


No one here is saying that climbing a fence or falling or raising/lowering a gun that goes off is NOT an accident.............but shooting a fellow hunter IS right??


In only one of those cases is the gun discharged on purpose, under full control of the man operating it.

I know no one is saying that mistaking a 2 legged man in an orange vest for a 600 lb huge racked 4 legged animal covered in brown fur is an accident.......right??


Some of the replies are confusing.

RE: Another hunter killed
 

I' m not sure I understand what you' re saying.

I' m saying that NONE of those are accidents. If you' re going to break any of the 10 Commandants of Firearm Safety, you' re being negligent and have no business in the woods. And in most states now days, negligence is both criminally and civily prosecutable.

RE: Another hunter killed
 

I think we all got our wires crossed there for a second. I was just trying to show a difference between the accidental discharge of a weapon and the intentional pointing and shooting of one.

They can ALL be avoided with simple common sense as I have already said.

I don' t see someone falling while walking and his gun discharging and striking someone else..........and someone shooting a hunter he thought was an Elk as quite the same things.

99.9% of hunting incidents are VERY preventable so I am in favor of holding the negligable party responsible to the extent of the law.

Be safe

RE: Another hunter killed
 

Okay, I got ya now. You' re basically talking about accidental discharges vs. hunting " accidents" . A firearm going off unintentionally is an accidental discharge and has nothing to do with whether or not it was negligence on the part of the owner. Your examples are what threw everyone off. If you' re pulling a loaded rifle up to your stand and if goes off, it' s an accidental discharge. If it strikes someone, it' s criminal negligence.

While we' re back to calmer thinking, what in the heck is that picture of? Someone' s liver?

RE: Another hunter killed
 

A little update, this might answer some questions from earlier. and atlas, yes what is that picture

http://journalstandard.com/articles/...ews/news26.txt

RE: Another hunter killed
 

Guys............cmon ;)

It is the heart of the buck I shot last year.


See the Y that the broadhead sliced in the middle??