Shot placement on animal A - a detailed look
01-29-2002, 01:46 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ......
Posts: 3,643
RE: Shot placement on animal A - a detailed look
Again, I shoot a longbow, so I would not take this shot, as it is given , and this is your shot. This isn't a wait and it'll get better, this is a would you take this shot, as its given, last day of the hunt.
I wouldn't. Why ? 3 or 4 inches one way or the other and I hit A)shoulder bone or B) one lung or no lung and guts. Its a killing shot, but the chances of not finding the deer are high IMO. Entry wound with arrow sticking out of it gives no blood trail, angled shot that hits guts leave little in the way of blood trails (guts plus the exit hole). Neck shots I would never take anyway. I would not take this shot and if another didn't present iteself, I would not fill my tag.
Edited by - stealthycat on 01/30/2002 08:02:04
I wouldn't. Why ? 3 or 4 inches one way or the other and I hit A)shoulder bone or B) one lung or no lung and guts. Its a killing shot, but the chances of not finding the deer are high IMO. Entry wound with arrow sticking out of it gives no blood trail, angled shot that hits guts leave little in the way of blood trails (guts plus the exit hole). Neck shots I would never take anyway. I would not take this shot and if another didn't present iteself, I would not fill my tag.
Edited by - stealthycat on 01/30/2002 08:02:04
01-29-2002, 02:15 PM
#3
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: calgary alberta canada
Posts: 250
RE: Shot placement on animal A - a detailed look
I don't know how detailed these are, and how accurate, but here goes.
The green dots=possible shot placement.
Blue dots=If you wanted to make a really crazy neck shot, Suggest using a rifle, although a compound would work.
With the pictured that Stealthy cat so greatly posted after my asking for them(thanks Stealth), I came up with these pictures. These pictures with the scribble all over them represent where I beleive organ's may be and also the bone's position. Now on a broadside shot the organ's would sit further back, but with the shifting of the body, and this is just my theory, the organs are shifted foward.
I have made a shot at almost this exact angle, turned 180 degree's and was very successful right down to no tracking job needed.
When the animal is quartering towards you, it closes off shots that would be placed behind the shoulder, do to the angle and bone mass covering the shot area, so my thought would be to place the shot in front of the shoulder and have it angle through, possibly hitting the shoulder on the other side, but passthroughs are not always needed for clean kills, I would think a passthrough would make a tracking job easier though.
From the shift and shooting in front of the leg and shoulder, I beleive there would be vital organ open and easy to hit, this is of course with a compound and being very well practiced and only shooting 15-20metres or yards. The Deer's lower leg bone, is very well massed to hold it's weight with low amounts of muscle I would pressume. The upper leg bone that attaches to the shoulderblade doesn't have quite the bone mass as the lower leg does, reason's I beleive are because the muscle act's as a stabilizer and lessens the need for larger bone mass.
Now lets say you place a shot in the green dot area's, possibilities for lungs, major arteries and even a possible heart shot, if the heart is not covered by the very tough leg joint. Even a shot behind the shoulder may still be useable, although I would rather take a shot in front or the leg, because the angle is much better for lungs to be open. As for bone mass on shot's in front of the leg, if we are well studied in deer, or animal anatomy, not saying that I am, but I would like to be.
We would know where the bone's are at every angle of deer movement, we would know where the organ's are and how to make a shot accordingly. I don't know if I can go into much more detail, but I have made this shot on a 250# bear with alot of muscle and bone mass and would more then likely take the shot at this or any other deer at this angle, if in my mind I knew it would be lethal, and fast acting. Which I beleive it could and would be.
Now let the thrashing begin, give your idea's critisms on what I have just posted " Dylan's theory of shot placement". LOL. Good shooting.
Dylan
>>>>--------o-->
The green dots=possible shot placement.
Blue dots=If you wanted to make a really crazy neck shot, Suggest using a rifle, although a compound would work.
With the pictured that Stealthy cat so greatly posted after my asking for them(thanks Stealth), I came up with these pictures. These pictures with the scribble all over them represent where I beleive organ's may be and also the bone's position. Now on a broadside shot the organ's would sit further back, but with the shifting of the body, and this is just my theory, the organs are shifted foward.
I have made a shot at almost this exact angle, turned 180 degree's and was very successful right down to no tracking job needed.
When the animal is quartering towards you, it closes off shots that would be placed behind the shoulder, do to the angle and bone mass covering the shot area, so my thought would be to place the shot in front of the shoulder and have it angle through, possibly hitting the shoulder on the other side, but passthroughs are not always needed for clean kills, I would think a passthrough would make a tracking job easier though.
From the shift and shooting in front of the leg and shoulder, I beleive there would be vital organ open and easy to hit, this is of course with a compound and being very well practiced and only shooting 15-20metres or yards. The Deer's lower leg bone, is very well massed to hold it's weight with low amounts of muscle I would pressume. The upper leg bone that attaches to the shoulderblade doesn't have quite the bone mass as the lower leg does, reason's I beleive are because the muscle act's as a stabilizer and lessens the need for larger bone mass.
Now lets say you place a shot in the green dot area's, possibilities for lungs, major arteries and even a possible heart shot, if the heart is not covered by the very tough leg joint. Even a shot behind the shoulder may still be useable, although I would rather take a shot in front or the leg, because the angle is much better for lungs to be open. As for bone mass on shot's in front of the leg, if we are well studied in deer, or animal anatomy, not saying that I am, but I would like to be.
We would know where the bone's are at every angle of deer movement, we would know where the organ's are and how to make a shot accordingly. I don't know if I can go into much more detail, but I have made this shot on a 250# bear with alot of muscle and bone mass and would more then likely take the shot at this or any other deer at this angle, if in my mind I knew it would be lethal, and fast acting. Which I beleive it could and would be.
Now let the thrashing begin, give your idea's critisms on what I have just posted " Dylan's theory of shot placement". LOL. Good shooting.
Dylan
>>>>--------o-->
01-29-2002, 03:14 PM
#4
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 620
RE: Shot placement on animal A - a detailed look
With a long bow or recurve I wouldnt shoot. With my compound or rifle, Heck ya. If I only had a long or recurve bow I would jump on him and bite his throat or something, I mean, holly molly saphire batman thats a beaut..
01-29-2002, 03:38 PM
#5
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: Shot placement on animal A - a detailed look
20 feet up a tree?.......This picture does you no good whatsoever.
This is a near eye level shot.....if you are 20 feet up and this close you have all sorts of crazy variables and angles to think about, not to mention that big fatty rack getting in the way!
If you are shooting down from that height, the shoulder blade now protects a lot more vital than this picture shows.....the lower green dots no longer become shot options. The only one that seems to still be a viable option is the green dot tucked into the "V" at the base of the shoulder blade where the leg then angles backwards.....and that's a pretty small target.
You actually did a pretty good job of showing the location of things.....it just looks a whole lot different from that high up.
There's just too much bad stuff to potentially hit with that shot.......It CAN be done;spine,tuck one in behind the shoulder, but that's about it unless you get lucky and catch a major blood vessel along the spine.
If that truly was the only opportunity, it would just about send me into a mental hospital but I'd have to pass.......Believe me I'd be thinking about it though.
But in reality.....if this was your only chance you wouldn't know it until it was too late. Basically the decision to pass wouldn't even have to be made, because I probably wouldn't even have the bow drawn yet!
This is a near eye level shot.....if you are 20 feet up and this close you have all sorts of crazy variables and angles to think about, not to mention that big fatty rack getting in the way!
If you are shooting down from that height, the shoulder blade now protects a lot more vital than this picture shows.....the lower green dots no longer become shot options. The only one that seems to still be a viable option is the green dot tucked into the "V" at the base of the shoulder blade where the leg then angles backwards.....and that's a pretty small target.
You actually did a pretty good job of showing the location of things.....it just looks a whole lot different from that high up.
There's just too much bad stuff to potentially hit with that shot.......It CAN be done;spine,tuck one in behind the shoulder, but that's about it unless you get lucky and catch a major blood vessel along the spine.
If that truly was the only opportunity, it would just about send me into a mental hospital but I'd have to pass.......Believe me I'd be thinking about it though.
But in reality.....if this was your only chance you wouldn't know it until it was too late. Basically the decision to pass wouldn't even have to be made, because I probably wouldn't even have the bow drawn yet!
01-29-2002, 05:29 PM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Spokane, WA & King George Va & Andrews AFB, MD
Posts: 2,238
RE: Shot placement on animal A - a detailed look
WITH A COMPOUND BOW OR A RIFLE I WOULD TAKE THE SHOT I DON'T SHOOT THE LONGBOW. BUT THANKS FOR THE PICS. AND THE STORY
01-29-2002, 05:59 PM
#10
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Southeast Central Illinois USA
Posts: 6,969
RE: Shot placement on animal A - a detailed look
Something like MattPa said, that pic is not a representation of being 20 feet up in a tree. 20 feet up in a tree angles are changed. I would not hesitate in taking that shot with my compound.