JagMagMan

I went to the bow shop yesterday to get some new arrows. I am switching from carbons back to aluminium. Although my bow is noticably slower with the heavier aluminum arrows, it is also noticably quieter too! I did have to resight my bow a little, but I am not losing any distance in my shooting.
Well, the guy at the shop just could not understand why I wanted to go back to heavy aluminum arrows. He said " do you realize you' re going to lose some arrow speed?" It seems to me that a lots of people today are overly obcessed with speed. I' m not knocking speed, if it works for you thats fine!
But for me, I' m getting better accuracy and a quieter setup with the heavier arrows. I don' t think that there is a bow shooting fast enough that a deer couldn' t jump the string, but if he doesn' t hear it, he can' t jump it!

Droptines

That' s funny, I just went the OTHER WAY,aluminums to carbons.I do agree with you, speed is OVER RATED.I' m trying carbons because I' m tired of worrying about every little " bump and nudge" .Super Slam Selects are not CHEAP.Hate the idea of possible bending one every time I pull it out of a mckenzie.With carbons you just need a friend to help you PULL your arrow out of the mckenzie.Has to be the " lesser" of the two evils.[]

bullsi

My set was the opposite alum were nosiey on my bow. The most quietes arrow setup would be carbon plastic vanes and a mecanical head.JMO

Rob/PA Bowyer

JagMagMan, you just learned what alot of us already knew and your exactly right. That is one reason why I always suggest if you want the benifits of carbon, go to the heaviest carbon or as close to your former aluminum weight as you can get.

Turk_man

I have always hunted with heavy aluminums and always will. Strings last longer and so do bows. Aluminums are quieter and just as durable as carbons, if your bending them pulling them from targets than someone needs to show you how to pull arrows. Although a high speed arrow can have the same KE as a slower heavier arrow there is the factor of momentom. Heavy arrows carry their KE longer and are harder to stop than light ones when impacting something like the ribs or spine of a large animal. Try to hunt dangerous game in Africa with a 500gr. arrow thats going 280 fps, that makes about 87ft. lbs of energy where as an 800gr. arrow at 220fps is the same KE but only the heavy arrow is recommended for Buff etc. Now this speed vs weight doesn`t really have any merit in NA. because we only have a couple animals, moose, musk ox, and maybe brown bears that warrent the need for the KE numbers that I`m talking about. Heck when I stated bowhunting a bow that could shoot over 205 was on fire. Speed or arrow weight don`t kill, accuracy does.

Arthur P

With aluminum, I get better accuracy, quieter bow, more efficient bow, less shock and vibration (without adding various and sundry doodads) and easier tuning. I get good durability because I use the thicker wall sizes, like 2216, 2219, 2315 and 2317. When they do get a little torqued, a minute with an arrow straightener and they' re like new again. I rarely get an arrow that will not shoot a broadhead and, when I do, it' s usually easily fixed by installing a new nock and/or insert. I can shoot the biggest, nastiest fixed blade heads on them, have some big ol' helical feathers on the back end to control them and still have plenty of room for clearance on my rest.

It might take a fraction of a second longer for my arrow to get to a deer at 30 yards, but it' s going to arrive with authority.

Carbon simply will not shoot fixed blade heads for me and I refuse to shoot mechanicals. But carbon' s okay for field points and poking holes in 3D targets.

Turk_man, I know what your saying, but just need to point out that you can increase momentum with speed as well. My 55 pound longbow (LB) will shoot a 575 grain arrow at 185 fps. My 60 pound, energy wheel compound (CP) will shoot that same 575 grain arrow at 220 fps for 62 ft lbs and .5609 lb/secs.

Now, take the mythical 350 grain IBO arrow and run the program to see what speeds it has to get to match the momentum -


LB 575 - 185 fps 44 ft lbs .4716 lb/secs

350 gn - 304 fps 72 ft lbs .4717 lb/secs

CP 575 - 220 fps 62 ft lbs .5609 lb/secs

350 gn - 361 fps 102 ft/lbs .5611 lb/secs

See? You CAN get the same momentum with a light arrow as someone with a slower, heavy arrow.

It does kinda get me tickled that so many guys jump through so many hoops trying to get 300 fps with a light arrow and wind up with about the same killing power as I get with my logs out of my old longbow. But, it' s their money, their fun.

Doesn' t mean I can' t have a chuckle at their expense tho...

Cougar Mag

Wow! Lately some of these topics in this forum are great!!! I love it!

I started hunting with carbons after 24 years hunting with aluminum. I do use the heaviest carbon arrow I can in the Easton line that shoots well from my bow. My only reason for changing to carbon shafts back in 2001 was just to give them a try and see how durable they were, not for speed. My setup works well for me and I am not a speed freak. One thing to remember, a lighter arrow also slows down faster too, lessening impact at longer distances.

I will be staying with carbon for the time being because of my success so far with carbons, and manufacturers are making heavier and straighter carbon hunting arrows every year. If all carbons were still as light as they were a few years ago, this ole boy would still be shooting aluminums.

Arthur P

Coug... Your comment about retained speed done sent me back to the ballistics program.

Retained speed, energy and momentum at 30 yards on the same arrows I used above:

LB 575 - 173 fps 38 ft lbs .4419 lb/secs

350 gn - 277 fps 60 ft lbs .4303 lb/secs

CP 575 - 206 fps 54 ft lbs .5244 lb/secs

350 gn - 329 fps 84 ft lbs .5109 lb/secs

The faster arrows ovbiously still carry more KE, the heavier arrows still carry more momentum. And the faster arrows have a lot flatter trajectory which is an advantage. How much of an advantage depends on the individual. The KE vs momentum argument has raged in the gunning community far longer than I' ve been alive, certainly longer than it has in the bowhunting community, and I know which ring I' ve thrown in my lot with. Elmer Keith was my guru as far as guns go.

Mahly13

KE is the better of the 2 for ESTIMATING penetration. Another thinng to add to the equasion is the effects of speed OTHER than that of just KE or momentum.
Simply put, faster things cut easier.
We have all seen or heard of the fixed blade test. try pushing a fixed blaed (cut to tip) through leather, and a replaceable blade (say a Thunderhead) through leather. it seems VERY hard to get that T-head through the leather...almost to the point of bending the arrow. Why do they zip in one side and out the other on a deer (when palcing the shot correctly)??? SPEED Why can you take a bicycle spoke and push (HUGE amounts of KE and momentum here...say 200 lbs of you moving at 1 fps) it along the grass and nothing happens...but a weed wacker goes through grass like butter? SPEED.
That said, I AM going heavier this year for more of a quiet bow...I' ll be droping from about 300fps to 280 or 270. (125 gn heads vs 100s, and CX300 vs CX200 will be adding over 50gns).
I' m not a speed demon...but I think some go TOO far in looking at ONLY momentum and to a lesser extent KE.
FACT #1 you CAN' T bow a bow quiet enough for a deer NOT to hear
FACT #2 You won' t make a bow shoot faster than a deer can hear.
the best you can hope for is a compromise...quiet enough that the deer doesn' t CARE...and fast enough that IF he DOES care, he can' t move TOO far out of the way.

dsheally

I' m in there with ya boy' s. 2314 XX75' s with 100 gr. broadheads. Have used this
combo hunting for years and works great! I only use my light carbons for 3-D
and that' s it. Is great to have down range energy when you need it too.