Pa bear
11-26-2010, 05:10 PM
#52
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
Everyone wants to belittle the guy that fed it. Just know, it was not illegal to feed bears 17 years ago.
And to use your words..... legal even back then does not equate to ethical. Any human who feeds a wild animal to the point that looses its natural fear of man is setting that animal up for disaster.
Yes, the guy who fed him deserves belittling. He deserves to be fined. He is the only one who violated the law and all he got was a warning. A good swift kick in the backside would be well deserved . He may not have sent the arrow, but if the situation went down as you insinuate, he contributed in the killing of that bear just as sure as the archer did.
BTW, Your "baiting deer" question doesnt apply here because they didnt shoot the bear over bait. The part of the game code regarding baiting allows a WCO a tremendous amount of subjectivity in this area. No distance is named. The WCO has considerable leeway to judge for himself if the animals pattern was affected in any way by the bait. From what I hear, most archery bear kills get looked at for just that very thing and there wasnt even a hint of a baiting issue raised regarding this kill.
11-26-2010, 05:30 PM
#53
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Orange county, NY
Posts: 2,949
Ive rifle hunted deer bears and hogs over bait and spotlighted hogs from a truck in TX too, on many, actually most of those hunts I came home with nothing.
On the other hand, I hunt small thickets in suburban NY, where baiting is illegal and you can only use a bow in most of them, to many thats "ethical" hunting and challenging but I can tagg out on at least a doe, within an hour everytime I go into one of those spots if I wanted to.
Point being "easy" aint always easy. Harvesting wild animals, any wild animals is an accomplishment and ethical IMO.
On the other hand, I hunt small thickets in suburban NY, where baiting is illegal and you can only use a bow in most of them, to many thats "ethical" hunting and challenging but I can tagg out on at least a doe, within an hour everytime I go into one of those spots if I wanted to.
Point being "easy" aint always easy. Harvesting wild animals, any wild animals is an accomplishment and ethical IMO.
11-26-2010, 07:54 PM
#54
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location:
Posts: 2,621
Well it HAS been illegal to feed bears for several years now. and daddy Bozo continued to do it.
And to use your words..... legal even back then does not equate to ethical. Any human who feeds a wild animal to the point that looses its natural fear of man is setting that animal up for disaster.
Yes, the guy who fed him deserves belittling. He deserves to be fined. He is the only one who violated the law and all he got was a warning. A good swift kick in the backside would be well deserved . He may not have sent the arrow, but if the situation went down as you insinuate, he contributed in the killing of that bear just as sure as the archer did.
BTW, Your "baiting deer" question doesnt apply here because they didnt shoot the bear over bait. The part of the game code regarding baiting allows a WCO a tremendous amount of subjectivity in this area. No distance is named. The WCO has considerable leeway to judge for himself if the animals pattern was affected in any way by the bait. From what I hear, most archery bear kills get looked at for just that very thing and there wasnt even a hint of a baiting issue raised regarding this kill.
And to use your words..... legal even back then does not equate to ethical. Any human who feeds a wild animal to the point that looses its natural fear of man is setting that animal up for disaster.
Yes, the guy who fed him deserves belittling. He deserves to be fined. He is the only one who violated the law and all he got was a warning. A good swift kick in the backside would be well deserved . He may not have sent the arrow, but if the situation went down as you insinuate, he contributed in the killing of that bear just as sure as the archer did.
BTW, Your "baiting deer" question doesnt apply here because they didnt shoot the bear over bait. The part of the game code regarding baiting allows a WCO a tremendous amount of subjectivity in this area. No distance is named. The WCO has considerable leeway to judge for himself if the animals pattern was affected in any way by the bait. From what I hear, most archery bear kills get looked at for just that very thing and there wasnt even a hint of a baiting issue raised regarding this kill.
I'm wondering about the 30 day rule for baiting. The PGC warned him 2 weeks before the season. That means that area was baited if he got a warning.
30 days did not elapse.
11-26-2010, 07:59 PM
#55
Spike
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location:
Posts: 23
how many of you guys are fisherman also? one of the pa state record trout was stocked by a hatchery and everyone knew it was there. they all saw it put in the water by the game commish. so should the person who caught it be punnished for it? there were prob 20 othere guys with there lines in the water also is that right, that fish was raised by humans in a tank and put in nature. some guy got lucky it hit his bait. yeah these guys knew it was there and one of them killed it. a record is still a record! it was still on legal terms.
it sounds like some of you think ethical hunting is going into the woods not knowing what is there and shooting something? yet everyone uses trail cams over food before the season? so now you and your buddies know what is there and are hunting that monster deer. you were feeding it to get picks right? then stopped before the season. knowing that the buck is likely to stay in the area. is that ethical? we all do it.
it sounds like some of you think ethical hunting is going into the woods not knowing what is there and shooting something? yet everyone uses trail cams over food before the season? so now you and your buddies know what is there and are hunting that monster deer. you were feeding it to get picks right? then stopped before the season. knowing that the buck is likely to stay in the area. is that ethical? we all do it.
Last edited by poconobowhunter; 11-26-2010 at 08:01 PM.
11-27-2010, 05:47 AM
#56
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 8,167
The one point I haven't seen addressed, is the fact that Leroy was not a hunter, he is an old man who took care of a bear cub, not for fame fortune or any other reason just because he cared, nothing more, nothing less, the man helped an animal to survive.
As for the twit that killed a tame bear I can not say the same. Who really passes the smell test on this one, Leroy or the twitster?
This puke knew Leroy and he knew Bozo the tame bear.
Bozo the bear is no trophy and this individual is no bear hunter.
This single handed selfish act has once again put hunters in the lime light, and in the worst possible way, what a glowing ass this twit has catapulted himself to in all the press, and we as hunters are all touted as one and the same, just heartless blood thirsty killers.
And showing anything but disdain for the actions of this ass-clown sends the wrong message to all of the hunters and non hunters of this state.
The sad part is we as hunters will all have to share the polarizing shame cast upon us by the thought less actions of one so over whelmed with self glorification, as to be blinded by reality of what ire killing this pet would subject all of us to.
Its a sad day in the hunting world when any thing but disgust is felt when this topic arises.
Last edited by bawanajim; 11-27-2010 at 06:35 AM.
11-27-2010, 08:07 AM
#57
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
IMHO, that means that the bear was taken well far away from where he was fed. Otherwise, there would have been baiting charges filed. I simply cant imagine that a WCO would "look the other way" with a bear this big.
Does anyone even know how far, exactly the bear was taken from Leroys place?
Not necessarily giving this hunter a pass on his ethics but Leroy was flat out wrong. 17 years is way more than simply rescuing a cub. He made a pet of a wild animal and that generally is signing a death warrant for the animal. It's remarkable that Bozo lived this long in spite of Leroys irresponsible behavior.
11-27-2010, 01:33 PM
#58
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location:
Posts: 2,621
To you young man I hope that one day you have a friend or family member that teaches you the finer points and challenges of the game golf, just because your mentors in the shooting sports have failed miserably.
The one point I haven't seen addressed, is the fact that Leroy was not a hunter, he is an old man who took care of a bear cub, not for fame fortune or any other reason just because he cared, nothing more, nothing less, the man helped an animal to survive.
As for the twit that killed a tame bear I can not say the same. Who really passes the smell test on this one, Leroy or the twitster?
This puke knew Leroy and he knew Bozo the tame bear.
Bozo the bear is no trophy and this individual is no bear hunter.
This single handed selfish act has once again put hunters in the lime light, and in the worst possible way, what a glowing ass this twit has catapulted himself to in all the press, and we as hunters are all touted as one and the same, just heartless blood thirsty killers.
And showing anything but disdain for the actions of this ass-clown sends the wrong message to all of the hunters and non hunters of this state.
The sad part is we as hunters will all have to share the polarizing shame cast upon us by the thought less actions of one so over whelmed with self glorification, as to be blinded by reality of what ire killing this pet would subject all of us to.
Its a sad day in the hunting world when any thing but disgust is felt when this topic arises.
The one point I haven't seen addressed, is the fact that Leroy was not a hunter, he is an old man who took care of a bear cub, not for fame fortune or any other reason just because he cared, nothing more, nothing less, the man helped an animal to survive.
As for the twit that killed a tame bear I can not say the same. Who really passes the smell test on this one, Leroy or the twitster?
This puke knew Leroy and he knew Bozo the tame bear.
Bozo the bear is no trophy and this individual is no bear hunter.
This single handed selfish act has once again put hunters in the lime light, and in the worst possible way, what a glowing ass this twit has catapulted himself to in all the press, and we as hunters are all touted as one and the same, just heartless blood thirsty killers.
And showing anything but disdain for the actions of this ass-clown sends the wrong message to all of the hunters and non hunters of this state.
The sad part is we as hunters will all have to share the polarizing shame cast upon us by the thought less actions of one so over whelmed with self glorification, as to be blinded by reality of what ire killing this pet would subject all of us to.
Its a sad day in the hunting world when any thing but disgust is felt when this topic arises.
+1
I couldn't agree more.
No doubt the Anti's will use this whole episode as fuel.
BTB,
I actually think the PGC will turn a blind eye toward any baiting charge. They see a potential world record or at least a bear ranking very high.
I feel they want to draw attention to PA being a destination for bear hunters from out of state.
Just the fact that it was tame makes all hunters look bad.
Really, just read all the comments anywhere this is/was posted on web sites. We all get a black eye over this.
Some don't care if we get a black eye just because it was big and supposedly legal. That's all they see.
So what if it makes hunting look bad, is their attitude.
11-27-2010, 02:42 PM
#59
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
Chuck, I have read a lot of the other BB's including some that were taken down since.
I'm not defending nor condemning the hunter. I saw enough both ways to conclude that I can't be anything more than skeptical of either position.
As for the PGC and a blind eye, I'm skeptical there too.
What we really know....
The hunter aint talkin
The PGC found no wrongdoing
Leroy admits to feeding this bear for years
Is this enough to condemn the hunter? I'm not ready to do that.
Do we have anything other than a guess as to how the WCO conducted his investigation? No, but I have yet to see one pass on a bust that'd create this much news
Ole Leroy, on the other hand, broke the law. One thats been in force for years and now he cries foul. He is the only ADMITTED lawbreaker here. I just am baffled that everyone is dumping on the hunter.
Lets all ask ourselves an admittedly hypothetical question. We're out hunting in the area near where this bear lives. (not simply behind Leroys place, we've established it wasn't close enough to be considered baiting) A big bear presents a shot. He's big, he's legal and you don't know if it's the "tame" bear or not. Would you pass the shot because it might be him????
Maybe this hunter was a lazy creep taking advantage of a tame bear, maybe not. The "tame" bear managed to elude hunters for 17 years and lets not pretend that he hasnt been targeted before. That'd really be a reach. What was different this time.... who really knows. We werent there.
Way too many unanswered questions exist about the kill, none exist about the illegal feeding. Thats all I'm saying.
I'm not defending nor condemning the hunter. I saw enough both ways to conclude that I can't be anything more than skeptical of either position.
As for the PGC and a blind eye, I'm skeptical there too.
What we really know....
The hunter aint talkin
The PGC found no wrongdoing
Leroy admits to feeding this bear for years
Is this enough to condemn the hunter? I'm not ready to do that.
Do we have anything other than a guess as to how the WCO conducted his investigation? No, but I have yet to see one pass on a bust that'd create this much news
Ole Leroy, on the other hand, broke the law. One thats been in force for years and now he cries foul. He is the only ADMITTED lawbreaker here. I just am baffled that everyone is dumping on the hunter.
Lets all ask ourselves an admittedly hypothetical question. We're out hunting in the area near where this bear lives. (not simply behind Leroys place, we've established it wasn't close enough to be considered baiting) A big bear presents a shot. He's big, he's legal and you don't know if it's the "tame" bear or not. Would you pass the shot because it might be him????
Maybe this hunter was a lazy creep taking advantage of a tame bear, maybe not. The "tame" bear managed to elude hunters for 17 years and lets not pretend that he hasnt been targeted before. That'd really be a reach. What was different this time.... who really knows. We werent there.
Way too many unanswered questions exist about the kill, none exist about the illegal feeding. Thats all I'm saying.
11-27-2010, 05:38 PM
#60
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 8,167
He had been feed for 17 years ,16 of which were twit free. One twit one kill and we have the biggest black eye hunters of PA have ever had.
The coulda ,woulda , shoulda, aside this is the worst thing to happen to hunting in PA, even over shadowing the murder of a P.G. C. employee.
Those involved are not hunters and the murdered bear is no trophy.Not now ,not ever.
The coulda ,woulda , shoulda, aside this is the worst thing to happen to hunting in PA, even over shadowing the murder of a P.G. C. employee.
Those involved are not hunters and the murdered bear is no trophy.Not now ,not ever.