Outfitter Dilemna in New Mexico - You may want to read this! NEED ADVICE
09-29-2010, 05:47 PM
#1
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: North East, PA (outside of Erie, PA)
Posts: 769
Outfitter Dilemna in New Mexico - You may want to read this! NEED ADVICE
Some of you may be aware of my situation for my elk hunt in New Mexico. Well tonight I spoke to the outfitter as a follow up and getting the emotions out of the way and then asking for what I felt was fair..
I was in Unit 16b/22.....I love hunting in that unit, however I think I will be finding a new outfitter as I called them tonight.....here is the conclusion I came too.
We signed up for a 2 on 1 hunt which the cost was $3800 for a 6 Day Wilderness Hunt. As presented, this was to include being packed into a spike camp, with a giuide going the wranglin', cooking and calling. We had 3 hunters in camp with only 1 guide.....which he took the other hunter the first 3 days....(which he tagged a bull on the 3rd morning)
To say I didn't get something the first 3 days would not be accurate. What I did get for those 3 days was a drop camp style hunt. A guide in camp to wrangle the horses & mules, cook meals and pack an animal if need be...for that the average price in the Gila is $1200, half of that is $600...we paid $3800 for our hunt, half of that since we had a guide for 3 days is $1900....my total should be the sum of the $600 & the $1900...with the difference from $3800 & $2500....refunded to me $1300...I think that is fair. When I asked for that I was told they were going to talk...question is they knew we were not satisfied so what did they do since we left camp Friday night until today ? Guess they never talked about what they needed to do in order for us to be made right...
It took me another 35 minutes to have the same conversation I had the night I returned from my camp..to be told they need to talk. The only difference is at camp I had no idea what a drop camp would cost so to give a figure would of been fair. I wouldn't ask for half back because like I said, I did get something.
I was informed at the end of my conversation that I do not understand emergencies not, sure what that means, other than the fact that the guide we were to have had an emergency and could not make it...
Like I said before, we never had any options....they were made for us...we were told the guide would be in the first day...he never showed...heck the guide we had wasn't told by the owner to rely any inform...he was left, like us to assume he wasn't coming..oh yea, I was also told good news spreads just as fast as bad news.
Your thoughts ???
I was in Unit 16b/22.....I love hunting in that unit, however I think I will be finding a new outfitter as I called them tonight.....here is the conclusion I came too.
We signed up for a 2 on 1 hunt which the cost was $3800 for a 6 Day Wilderness Hunt. As presented, this was to include being packed into a spike camp, with a giuide going the wranglin', cooking and calling. We had 3 hunters in camp with only 1 guide.....which he took the other hunter the first 3 days....(which he tagged a bull on the 3rd morning)
To say I didn't get something the first 3 days would not be accurate. What I did get for those 3 days was a drop camp style hunt. A guide in camp to wrangle the horses & mules, cook meals and pack an animal if need be...for that the average price in the Gila is $1200, half of that is $600...we paid $3800 for our hunt, half of that since we had a guide for 3 days is $1900....my total should be the sum of the $600 & the $1900...with the difference from $3800 & $2500....refunded to me $1300...I think that is fair. When I asked for that I was told they were going to talk...question is they knew we were not satisfied so what did they do since we left camp Friday night until today ? Guess they never talked about what they needed to do in order for us to be made right...
It took me another 35 minutes to have the same conversation I had the night I returned from my camp..to be told they need to talk. The only difference is at camp I had no idea what a drop camp would cost so to give a figure would of been fair. I wouldn't ask for half back because like I said, I did get something.
I was informed at the end of my conversation that I do not understand emergencies not, sure what that means, other than the fact that the guide we were to have had an emergency and could not make it...
Like I said before, we never had any options....they were made for us...we were told the guide would be in the first day...he never showed...heck the guide we had wasn't told by the owner to rely any inform...he was left, like us to assume he wasn't coming..oh yea, I was also told good news spreads just as fast as bad news.
Your thoughts ???
09-29-2010, 06:33 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: central Illinois
Posts: 1,872
Sounds to me that you are only asking for what is fair.
You could have thrown a fit and asked for a complete refund. But it seems you thought it out and are only asking for what you feel wasnt delivered.
If you have it in writing(contract) what was agreed upon and paid for I would not settle for less than what you asked for back. It seem logical and fair. I believe you are in your rights to ask for the partial refund and fight for it if needed.
Have you used them in the past on your hunts? If so i would bring up you are a repeat customer and wont be back.
Good luck and hope it turns out well for you.
You could have thrown a fit and asked for a complete refund. But it seems you thought it out and are only asking for what you feel wasnt delivered.
If you have it in writing(contract) what was agreed upon and paid for I would not settle for less than what you asked for back. It seem logical and fair. I believe you are in your rights to ask for the partial refund and fight for it if needed.
Have you used them in the past on your hunts? If so i would bring up you are a repeat customer and wont be back.
Good luck and hope it turns out well for you.
09-29-2010, 07:01 PM
#3
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: North East, PA (outside of Erie, PA)
Posts: 769
This was my second trip. The only issue I had on the first one was the fact that we didn't pack in until the first day..hunted around base camp the first morning due to the mules getting away the day before. However the last day, we packed back to base camp after the morning hunt to hunt not far from the road...to me that wasn't wilderness and I expressed that prior to sending in my deposit this year.
For the record, we did not hunt around base camp the last day this year...however others in camp did.
For the record, we did not hunt around base camp the last day this year...however others in camp did.
Sounds to me that you are only asking for what is fair.
You could have thrown a fit and asked for a complete refund. But it seems you thought it out and are only asking for what you feel wasnt delivered.
If you have it in writing(contract) what was agreed upon and paid for I would not settle for less than what you asked for back. It seem logical and fair. I believe you are in your rights to ask for the partial refund and fight for it if needed.
Have you used them in the past on your hunts? If so i would bring up you are a repeat customer and wont be back.
Good luck and hope it turns out well for you.
You could have thrown a fit and asked for a complete refund. But it seems you thought it out and are only asking for what you feel wasnt delivered.
If you have it in writing(contract) what was agreed upon and paid for I would not settle for less than what you asked for back. It seem logical and fair. I believe you are in your rights to ask for the partial refund and fight for it if needed.
Have you used them in the past on your hunts? If so i would bring up you are a repeat customer and wont be back.
Good luck and hope it turns out well for you.
09-29-2010, 07:53 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,558
You are handling this 100 times better than I would have. I think you are being completely fair.
My response to this would have been, "Failure to prepare on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine."
Sure, emergencies happen, but the outfitter better have a backup plan for these. He either should have got another guide to camp or stepped up to bat himself.
Had I been the outfitter, I would have spoke with you right when you arrived and I would have initiated the negotions of your price, not the other way around.
Sure, emergencies happen, but the outfitter better have a backup plan for these. He either should have got another guide to camp or stepped up to bat himself.
Had I been the outfitter, I would have spoke with you right when you arrived and I would have initiated the negotions of your price, not the other way around.
09-30-2010, 05:37 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wentzville, MO
Posts: 1,375
I think you are being more than fair with your compromise. Unless the outfitter thought that a guide was going to show up during your hunt, he should have been the one making this offer when you arrived.
09-30-2010, 07:47 AM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,358
You're a repeat customer, that's a plus on your side when dealing with him.
It is possible an emergency with the guide happened that he couldn't get around, these things happen. He should have been upfront with you.
One angle to try is that since he dind't have to pay the guide for the days you were thre, that can be the refund.
It is possible an emergency with the guide happened that he couldn't get around, these things happen. He should have been upfront with you.
One angle to try is that since he dind't have to pay the guide for the days you were thre, that can be the refund.
09-30-2010, 07:48 AM
#7
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 117
It sounds like what you are asking is fair but I wouldn’t hold my breath getting any money back. They already have it, and unless you try to take them to court which would cost more than you would get back (and they know this) you are probably screwed.
I think it just depends on the integrity of the outfitter on what results you will get.
Also, using an emergency as a excuse to not fullfill a buisness agreement is bull! IMO what you are asking for is more than fair for them and you probably deserve more than that refunded.
I think it just depends on the integrity of the outfitter on what results you will get.
Also, using an emergency as a excuse to not fullfill a buisness agreement is bull! IMO what you are asking for is more than fair for them and you probably deserve more than that refunded.
09-30-2010, 02:34 PM
#8
Host of Hosts
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Erie, Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,780
Rob, your more patient than I would be. It's probably a good thing I didn't go with you cause you know I won't hold back.
Your asking for a resonable refund. I think you definately have to name this outfitter if you don't get a resolution.
Your asking for a resonable refund. I think you definately have to name this outfitter if you don't get a resolution.
09-30-2010, 04:08 PM
#10
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: North East, PA (outside of Erie, PA)
Posts: 769
My thought exactly, why did I have to bring it up...especially since they had ample time and I deserved more than a 1 minute explanation sitting on a horse.
Not sure if this is any benefit..we watched as they got upset with a hunter as he got lost on his hunt around base camp....guess my comment is this.. he wouldn't of got lost had a guide been with him (they only do guided hunts) and it was only his second trip there....and why get mad ?? Not like he did it on purpose
I have already decided that I will take this as far as I need to regardless of the cost..its a matter of principal and taking it further if a resolution is not met, will then make it public record.
Hey Doug, as you can imagine playing catch up and dealing with this issue making calls has taken some time...I wish you had been there, I needed your approach
..don't worry I won't be going there again..
You're a repeat customer, that's a plus on your side when dealing with him.
It is possible an emergency with the guide happened that he couldn't get around, these things happen. He should have been upfront with you.
One angle to try is that since he dind't have to pay the guide for the days you were thre, that can be the refund.
It is possible an emergency with the guide happened that he couldn't get around, these things happen. He should have been upfront with you.
One angle to try is that since he dind't have to pay the guide for the days you were thre, that can be the refund.
It sounds like what you are asking is fair but I wouldn’t hold my breath getting any money back. They already have it, and unless you try to take them to court which would cost more than you would get back (and they know this) you are probably screwed.
I think it just depends on the integrity of the outfitter on what results you will get.
Also, using an emergency as a excuse to not fullfill a buisness agreement is bull! IMO what you are asking for is more than fair for them and you probably deserve more than that refunded.
I think it just depends on the integrity of the outfitter on what results you will get.
Also, using an emergency as a excuse to not fullfill a buisness agreement is bull! IMO what you are asking for is more than fair for them and you probably deserve more than that refunded.
..don't worry I won't be going there again..