Schultzy

Money talks whether anyone wants to admit It or not. That Is 100% the only reason this so called bow Is getting pushed Into the archery seasons to be made legal.

bigbulls

What point?

bigcountry

Honestly bb if you missed it, I wouldn't want to discuss anything with you. Because your not capable of having a conversation.

I honestly right now think you are not an idiot, your just stubborn. But if your reading this and really shrugging your shoulders, then there is no need to reply. You would be incapable of having a discussion about anything.

bigbulls

It's a legitimate question to you but you beat around the bush and didn't answer it.

Who's tradition?

Do you have the same traditions as I do? Do you have the same traditions as John Doe from across the country? Are you the tradition expert?

Davoh

exactly!!!

bigcountry

When archery seasons came out, it was about tradition. Tradition of archery. It wasn't only about herd managment. It was acceptable and noble to hunt deer. Manly even. It was harder, more challenging, but had soul. Slowly over time, things changed. I remember my first wheel bow I shot was a whitetail hunter in 1983 or so. They were actually slower than a recurve of compariable wieght. Then i got browning excellerator. These were faster than trad bows. On and on, dozens of bows later, we are at a place where tradition has faded away. Archery now is just big business that spends most of its budget telling hunters they can't kill a deer with anything less. And I am shocked how effective thier marketing is. How gulible new shooters are.

Its kinda like muzzleloaders being legal for the soul reason of limited range. Companies took this to levels now, where come communities are considering dropping ML season because they can reach out to 200 yards, and can travel over 500 yards and still cause damage.

So by your logic, just because sportsman has taken compound to levels of x-bows, you ought to let them in???? I mean where's the limit?

Isn't this the simular arguement that homosexuals make for acceptance. Started off, just wanted to be private and live life like they wanted, and now, demanding marriage rights and in our face on every facet of tv.

bigbulls

It can still mean all of that and more to you and yours can it not? Do your traditions and values have to be imposed on another fellow hunter that enjoys hunting with a crossbow?

It's the natural progression of things to become more advanced. Do you believe that 1000 years ago that if "cave men" had had crossbows and compound bows available to them they would have opted for tradition? I think they would have opted to use the most effective tool available don't you? You decide what the limit is for yourself and the way you want to hunt. You shouldn't decide for me and I shouldn't decide for you.

I agree 100%. But my argument isn't about marketing it's about personal choice. Marketing is extremely effective to those that are underinformed. We were all this way at one point in our lives. Look at how many shoes Nike sold because Michael Jordan was embroidered on the shoe. At the same time I do not have contempt for a company that markets their products well. Some marketing chamaigns are downright absurd and border on wreckless (It's like throwing an axe through the deer) but good marketing is what sells a product. If I owned a manufacturing business I'd be marketing the heck of of my widgets.

Even the first rifled muzzle loaders had effective ranges of a couple hundred yards. Honestly though, aside from putting the primer behind the powder the ML is basically unchanged. What has advanced ML hunting more than anything is the propellants and the projectiles. States can impose restraints on ML hunting if they wish. Colorado, for instance, does not allow optics, pelletized powder or saboted bullets. This limits the modern inline ML to more restricted ranges.

I think that's one heck of a strech there. Like the "dumbing down of America" comment earlier.

bigcountry

Ok, then if what you say is true, then its not about tradition at all. Its about deer mgmt and attracking new hunters. Back to weapon of choice. When I mentioned this to DNR when they were solicitating opinions on x-bows, they said "the bow dealers would freak out if that happened". And they are right.

If any of the arguments that x-bow proponents use hold water, then its only logical to make it just a "deer season". Use what you want. Then you at least wouldn't be hypocritical. I mean the orange army pays taxes just like we do.

Davoh

If you want to argue what is and isn't traditional, then by all means do so with whomever you want. But the application of such logic to whether or not someone should be "ALLOWED" to do something, is in fact illogical.

Bottom line, it doesn't hurt you, the deer, or anything else in the world. Therefore, the government has no place preventing people from doing so, based on your opinion of what is and is not traditional...

Ethics and morality are social concerns, NOT LEGAL CONCERNS.

If you want to buy land, and have it be stick bows only, THEN BY ALL MEANS. But public land, and even leased land, you have no right to deny someone else something based on you PERSONAL opinion.

It is just like walking down the street, you dont have to like the Jones' kids, with their mohawk haircuts and hole-ridden jeans, but they've just as much a right to wear their clothes, as you do to wear clothes of your own preference.

I'm a mustang lover... particularly the 64-68... and I have a soft spot for the restoration to original specs, for not opting for modern amenities and performance parts... But I'm not going to hate on someone for droping a 427 cobrajet motor in a 64 coupe, or for people driving camaros and 'cudas...

Same premise.

Soapbox relinquished...

bigcountry

Exactly, this is the point I am making that x-bowers run from. If they feel they should be allowed in archery season, then so should the orange army by thier logic of deer mgmt and attracting hunters.

But its not about personal rights and goverment control, is it. Its about the bow manufactures, and muzzleloader industry and gun industry. Imagine if it was like Newfoundland where you had just "moose season". You would have few bowyers. But I guarantee you most of the bow shops and muzzleloading companies would go out of business.

So I keep asking this question and no proponents of xbow will answer. What is the reasonings for separate seasons in the US? I know the answer.

Archers want the xbowers out so they have the rut to themselves. Xbowers want part of the action of rut, but don't want to take the time to master the bow. But neither of them want the orange army because then it would ruin the rut for them. None of the hunter industry mfg or shops want it to be an open season, so they can hock thier goods on sportsman. So we all have rifles, slugguns, crossbows, compounds, you name it.