What would you have done???
 

Home sick from work 2 days ago with a wicked summer cold I watched a show on the Outdoor Channel, I think it was Archer' s Choice? Well, the show " guy" was sitting in his treestand off a field edge about 50 yards in Illinois and he hit his rattling horns. A buck slipped in behind them and surprised them so they quickly spun the camera on the deer and he took a pretty quick shot at the deer. It was clearly evident on the film he had gut shot the deer, they followed the deer with the camera and he didn' t go far, and he was hunched up pretty bad. The host of the show turns to the camera and tells how he had been concentrating on the deer and the yardage (32 yards) and had failed to see a small branch and he had his shot deflected low and back on the deer. The host of the show after watching the deer get up and bed down a few times decides to back out and come back the following morning.

The next morning they zoom in from a distance on the carcass of the buck on the field edge right near the stand sight. It was 90% eaten by coyotes. The next camera shot was the hunter with just the head and rack with his tag on it. Now he had a few more days he could have hunted, but he did the right thing IMHO and tagged the animal he killed.

I have never been in this situation myself but have known a few people who have, and some of these people have made different decisions than the guy above. I guess my question to anyone who cares to write their opinion is what would you do if your buck was eaten by coyotes before you recover it? What would you do if it was a doe you shot? I' m curious for anyone who says tag the buck but not the doe because he has horns you can keep if you think that is ethical? Would it matter if the horns had been chewed?

RE: What would you have done???
 

I would tag either one - no question.

I would bring the deer to DEC and see if I could get another tag.

If I could not...well to bad...thats how it goes sometimes.

RE: What would you have done???
 

I would do what Rack Attack said, exactly. Chances are you may get another tag.

RE: What would you have done???
 

Well a few hunters i know would just leave and go on hunting which i my mind is wrong,,,,,if i am hunting and shoot a deer and 75-90% of it get eaten by predators i will tag it just like i would if the deer hadn' t been harmed

RE: What would you have done???
 

Ditto what rack said.

I' m glad to hear that at least they acknowledged that they had a bad hit and showed and discussed it on the show. Most shows edit out those takes and only show the pretty stuff that' s PC.

RE: What would you have done???
 

WV,

They probably had no choice.

Kinda hard to justify a perfect double lunger that dropped in sight - with half its torso chewed to pieces...LOL:D:D

RE: What would you have done???
 

I would think that if you' re honest about it and took it to the proper authority, they would give you another tag. If not, better luck next year!
Mike,-

RE: What would you have done???
 

I would tag it, but that is easy for me to say honestly, because in Va. you can kill 3 buck and almost 100 doe as long as you are willing to pay for bonus tags. My hat is off to them for being honest about a bad shot and tagging the deer.

RE: What would you have done???
 

tag it no matter what! can anyone say zaft? besides it being the ethical thing to do it' s all part of hunting and it' s only fair to the animal and other hunters, you shot yours why should you get another one unless you have another tag!

RE: What would you have done???
 

My question to all of you who suggested asking the game dept for another tag is this. Why do you feel that making a poor shot, whether intentional or not and not recovering the deer until it' s been eaten by other predators entitles you to another tag. How often are perfectly healthy deer taken down by coyotes. Let' s be realistic, if you know you hit that deer in the guts then you killed it and it is removed from the herd whether you get to eat it or not. I respect all of you who would tag it but feel it' s unethical to ask for another tag because you didn' t get to eat it. I think an additional question is in order. What if that deer is never recovered? Do you keep hunting even though you know you' ve made a lethal hit on one deer?
TJ

RE: What would you have done???
 

Where I hunt they give tags away like water. Lots of deer and they want as many taken as possible. I think it is the right thing to do, let them know you killed one and ask for another so you can get some meat. Much better than leaving it in the woods. And doesn' t have to be a bad hit, I know of perfect double lungers ripped apart overnight.

Like I said, leave the decision up to the DEC, they make the laws, they know the herd status, they run the show. I see nothing wrong with asking, I think it is the right thing to do.

Of Course I will still hunt if I do not recover a lethal hit deer. I will search for Days, I can assure you of that - and I mean days not just a few hours. Its Hunting, sometimes the worst happens. We learn, we live, we move on.

RE: What would you have done???
 

Why would anyone take an intentionally poor shot?

FWIW, I don' t necessarily think that I am entitled to another tag, but it would be worth asking for to me anyway.

Like Rack Attack has said, I have also had the occasion of leaving a lunged deer overnight. Luckily nothing happened to it.

So FFTJ, what would you do, I' m kind of interested in knowing your answers to your questions.

RE: What would you have done???
 

You shoot it, you bust ass to find it, you tag it! My opinion.

But what if you shoot it, draw blood and then never find it?

On the property that ajoins ours 9 guys own 500 acres together. Thier rule is if you draw blood on a buck, you' re done. They all paid a lot of money for this prime WI hunting land and they feel that each guy is allowed 1 archery and 1 gun buck per year.

BUT what if you' re on public land? or on a big $$ trip? HMMMMMM

RE: What would you have done???
 

well, it would be easy to drag out.

RE: What would you have done???
 

Buying another tag is different than what it sounded like RA was saying. By all means if there are more tags available I would buy more. Where I hunt you are only allowed one buck tag. If the deer in the example is a buck I consider it filled if I made a lethal shot whether recovered or not. My whole scenario was based on that single permit. I never implied that each person should only get 1 deer a year. If your state offers multiple tags have at them but don' t go begging to the state just because you didn' t recover the deer before it was eaten by coyotes. Bobco I know of several people who have intentionally taken poor shots at deer, most of them were directly related to the size of the antlers or the experience of the hunter.
TJ

RE: What would you have done???
 

FFTJ,

I have no problem with the way you do things:)

But even if I had only one tag (and I have) If I shot a deer and it was eaten by something, I would still make an attempt to ask DEC for another tag. If they see fit to allow me another tag, and I recieve it legally - I do not see how you can call that un-ethical. And I have never begged for anything.......well almost anything:D:D

And more power to you for ripping up that buck tag on the third day of a 2 month season because you failed to recover your buck(with the proper effort to find it), even though you can legally still hunt.:)

RE: What would you have done???
 

I have no problem with killing as many deer as the state will allow and I don' t suffer too much if I don' t get all my tags filled . Now imagine I fill all of them twice. Now imagine the dishonest people who walk into the office and say they lost an animal when in reality they didn' t, they just want another tag but the state has set precedence that if you say you lost an animal they' ll give you another. What really suffers is the herd. I understand your point on if the state gives the tags you are legal to kill them but there has got to be a line drawn somewhere. They attempt to do that by setting a limit on the number of tags an individual can purchase. If they let you have an extra they have to let everyone have one if they claim that' s what happened. What happens to the resource then?
We both know ethics and legality are two separate things. I would look for that deer all season while hunting to fill my antlerless permits.
TJ

RE: What would you have done???
 

Im with Rack-attack here!!!!

RE: What would you have done???
 

Im with Rack-Attack, tag it. I saw that show also and I commend Ralph Ciancurulo for doing what he did, that showed a good sportsmans ethics.

RE: What would you have done???
 

You will always feel better about yourself by doing the right thing. You killed it, you tag it.

RE: What would you have done???
 

By letting the game warden decide you have done the right thing . If you get another tag thats great , if you dont you can still hunt does or wait till next year . It sounds like the guy got a trophy for the wall at least , and thats usealy the reason responceable hunters shoot bucks . If your a meat hunter , does usealy taste better anyway .

RE: What would you have done???
 

I' d claim it as the world record and get a bunch of companies to sponsor me!!!

All kidding aside, I would probably tag it and put the horns on the shed.

RE: What would you have done???
 

Most of you agreed 100% with RA. So what you' re all saying is that if you find that deer 2 weeks later, half eaten by coyotes and full of maggots that you would tag it and drag it out of the woods? That' s not ethical, that' s plain stupid! If it were the next day I would likely tag it and see if the tag could be replaced....buck or doe. But not a week later or even 3 days later. If I' ve made a bad shot, it' s my fault....the deer still died, and it' s my responsibility. However, there is a point were you have to draw the line. I' m not afforded multiple tags here, so maybe I' m being selfish. I did pay for that tag to put on a deer....not a head with scraps of bone, flesh and hide. Bad shots happen and some bad shots are intentional (poor angle, low light, rushed shots, etc). You chose to take the shot, so it was intentional....or at least the risk of wounding was greater and you should have know it!

That' s one of the most absurd comments I' ve ever read! I always thought I was a responsible hunter, but I guess not since I shoot bucks and not solely for the wall.

RE: What would you have done???
 

Jason, Nobody said anything about 2 or 3 weeks later...until now:)

Sure thats a different story, I am not dragging a maggot infested deer also;)

But finding it the NEXT morning....I think its a judgment call. For me I just don' t want to leave a dead deer in the woods, It was found in reasonable time and I consider it a kill - Chewed in half or not.

So I agree, there is a gray area - and there is no clear cut " line" or other magical answer.

RE: What would you have done???
 

I had an *issue* last year that nearly put me in this position.

I lost a critter, & took one the next day. The day after harvesting mine we finally found the one I lost. It had been totally snarfed by the Twolves for a day (we knew they were on him but after the initial ' call in' to the kill they shut up & we couldn' t find them). After the wolves had their fill the ravens took over - they didn' t shut up & I walked right in on the remains.

I would have tagged the lost buck had I found it sooner.

I did take the horns - and what was left of the arrow & broadhead. I made a display & wood burned " never again" in it - I look at it every day in the garage.

RE: What would you have done???
 

RA,

This is what I was referring to...

later posted....

I wasn' t trying to flame you or anyone.:) I was trying to figure out where everyone would draw the line....apparently FFTJ is done even if the " letal shot" LOOKS lethal....when it may be superficial. We all know that often times a good/bad hit did not LOOK that way from our point of view. Not trying to pick on you FFTJ!:) Of course all this talk of lethal and superficial hits is better suited for another thread, but for the point I' m making it is relevant.

This is what I was looking for....

Either that or the ever elusive " magical answer" :D;)

RE: What would you have done???
 

I wasent trying to be absurd but maybe I could have worded that better , more like It wasnt a total loss , the guy did get a trophy . You do get the add bonus of getting to eat some good meat and have a trophy for the wall if you get a nice buck , doe meat does taste better . I was trying to get accross that we should let small bucks walk , guess it did' nt come out that way .

RE: What would you have done???
 

No harm Jason, I don' t know that I would be able to look at myself in the mirror if I knew I killed that deer and just kept hunting. In my opinion if it looked lethal whether in the chest or the guts I cannot assume it was just superficial just because I didn' t recover it. When I shot the arrow it looked lethal, that' s all I have to go on. I would consider that deer killed by my arrow.
TJ

RE: What would you have done???
 

I think its just being a sportsman. You have a tag to kill one deer. The fact that it was eaten by coyotes does not change the fact that you killed that deer, especially since it was a bad shot on the deer that caused you to have to return the next day.

Someone asked where do you draw the line, I' ll tell you where my line is. One year I shot a deer and it was obviously hit. We tracked it for a half mile where we lost sign. My party looked for that deer for nearly a day and it was gone. I don' t know for sure where I hit the deer (thought it was a good hit but who knows) and if it ever expired but I put my tag away for the rest of the hunt. I helped my friends but did no more hunting on that trip. In my eyes I filled the tag but due to a poor shot I had nothing to show for it. I have never not recovered an animal since.

RE: What would you have done???
 

I am with rack and everyone else here who say they would do the same thing that Ralph C. did on the show. I was very impressed with everything that he did concerning this segment on the show. He showed a true hunting situation and the unfortunate outcome that can happen ( i.e. a bad shot, deer eaten by coyotes etc.). I really appreciated the fact that he showed his emotions and how bad he felt about the situation, and then did the right thing by tagging the deer. Alot of shows would have just canned that fottage and used a more successful hunt. I e-mailed Ralph and told him how impressed I was with the whole situation.
Now about asking for another tag. My buddy had a situation a few years ago that I truly believe that he should have recieved another tag from the Ohio DNR and didn' t. Here in Northwest Ohio we get one tag a year, either sex. As he was pulling up to park that morning to hunt he saw a deers eyes out in the field between the road and the woods. The deer was bedded down. He ended up getting in his stand and at first light he saw the deer was still laying out in the field. It was a small doe and he could see that something was wrong. He got down and walked up to her and she tried to get up . He saw that she had been hit by a car and was in pretty bad shape. Both of her front legs were broke and one was cut off at the elbow, and the leg was laying on the road. Her one shoulder was all mangled etc. She was in really bad shape. He nocked an arrow and shot her to put her out of her misery. She still got up and ran on her stumps for about 20 yards and the died. He was really bummed out seeing her suffering that much and not knowing how long she had layed there. Anyhow, he went down the road to a farmers house we know to call the game warden and report it ( this was before he had a cell phone). The game warden said that she would be there as soon as possible. He sat there and waited for about 35 minutes till she got there. He then explained the situation to he and she looked at everything. She said that she could see where the deer had been hit etc. and that he did a good thing by dispatching the deer . Then believe it or not, she told him that he would have to tag the deer since he shot it and killed it. She said that if he would have called her first and waited for he to get there to shoot it thta she would have gave him a roadkill tag, but since he shot it and then called he would have to use his tag. He explained that he couldn' t stand to see it suffer and wanted to end it as soon as possible. He never argued or anything. Long story short, his season was done. I though that it was pretty crummy myself. It was obvious what had happened but it didn' t matter. I really believe in that situation that he should have been given a roadkill tag and been able to hunt with his tag but she didn' t see it that way. just thought that I would tell the story that happened to him and see what others thought about it.

RE: What would you have done???
 

wow thats really said Prof, so in other words according to the authorities, he should have let the deer suffer additional time in order for them to arrive. Somethings wrong there in my book anyway. I think your friend did the right thing.

RE: What would you have done???
 

Yes Bob that is about what it boiled down to. He would have had to call her and wait for the 35 minutes for her to get there before he could have shot it. He said that there is now way he could have stood to see her suffering anymore. He did do the right thing, and I would have done the same thing. I talked to another game warden about it once and he said that he would have used a roadkill tag with all the evidence there. It is up to the warden' s discretion I guess. But it was a bummer that he was done for the year. He only got about half the meat from it to boot. That wasn' t a good season for him.

RE: What would you have done???
 

ijimmy,

I know what you were trying to say the first time, but the whole trophy vs. meat hunter argument[:@] really strikes a nerve with me and it just really bothered me. Sorry for the flame.[:' (]

Sad story there Proff....sorry it turned out that way. The authorities really need to get there head out of the sand on issues like that. Your friend did the right thing though.[:-]

FFTJ,

I understand completely.

RBH,

I follow you there. I still think there is a line....somewhere.


I likely would have tagged the deer the next day and asked the PGC for a new tag. Whether I deserve it or not is questionable....sort of -- if I shoot a gang green deer it isn' t fit for consumption. In this case the PGC will issue me a new tag. Isn' t this sort of the same deal? I mean a deer that' s been torn apart by coyotes, or anything for that matter, and not much left is certainly not fit for human comsuption, right? Same thing? Or different?

RE: What would you have done???
 

I shot a doe last year and never found it. We are allowed one deer period out here, and even if I had found the doe after coyotes had eaten it I would still have tagged it. As it was I felt so bad that I considered myself done for the season and didn' t hunt anymore. I kept looking for the remains for several days afterward even though I don' t know exactly what I would have done had I found them. I don' t see anything wrong with asking the DOW for another tag. They should know whether or not they need to reduce the herd size and you will probably be given/not given a tag accordingly. JMO

RE: What would you have done???
 

Proff, I feel for your friend. I agree he should not have had to tag that deer. Thats not right at all. I' ve been in a situation where a deer was nearly dead on the side of the road from being hit by a car and I shot it with a handgun. Does that make me a poacher? It wasn' t even deer season. I then called a game warden but I was not arrested for poaching.

Jason N I don' t think there is anyway to cover every case here but I see what you' re trying to say. The line can be hazy. A lot of it boils down to personal feelings. To answer your question if I shot a deer with gang green then I' d take the horns and go home. Coyotes gotta eat so they can have the rest. In my eyes you gotta look at the bigger picture. We' re talking about life, not a product at a store. If I kill a deer while hunting it, the above situation wold be an exception, then I took the 1 life I was licensed to take. If I lose the meat because of whatever reason then I chalk it up to experience and lesson learned based on whatever happened. Some things are out of your control and there are risks. There are no guarantees in hunting. If someone stole your deer out of camp, are you entitled to another tag? I think no, but thats just a personal feeling.

RE: What would you have done???
 

Proff....it looks like he should have just shot that poor doe and went on with his business. Atleast that' s what I would have done. I can' t stand to see an animal like that in such pain. Nothing goes to waste in the woods!! And in this case he did the right thing.

As to the main thread...I guess that I feel differently than pretty much everyone that is responding to it. So I' ll just leave it at that. Don' t want to get into a peeing match on what or where to draw the line on such a thing.

RE: What would you have done???
 

In reply to the initial question...I' m kinda cut and dry on this one. I think if you do not tag it, then you have little business hunting, much less bowhunting. As a bowhunter, I take additional pride in what we do, as I think we need to. We normally put in more work than a rifle/shotgun hunter, because we have to. And that work involves many things, one of which is being in constant contact (and good standing) with the landowners where this animal lay. In addition, many landowners prefer bowhunters as opposed to rifle/shotgun hunters. That being said, we need not only follow the rules to a ' T' , but also even go a step further if something may be legal but involves a moral judgment call of some sort. I personally see it as both, highly illegal and highly immoral.

This is all within our hunting family too, not even getting into the issue of anti-groups who would LOVE to catch wind of something like this. What many of these wacko' s wouldn' t give to have a picture of a rotted out carcass (regardless if eaten' by other predators...that part would never be told) with an arrow sticking out the side of it...know what I mean? Not good.

Just my two cents.

**just a side note, I was watching the O' Reilly Factor last night and he had a segment, which touched on anti-groups and their demonstrations. To be quite honest, I was somewhat shocked at what these people were doing outside of a fast food restaurant. They were all dressed up in fake fur outfits, chained at the neck, and COVERED in fake blood...all the while rolling around on the ground making as**s out of themselves. This was a serious head shaker for me, as I am honestly stumped how fence sitters would buy into this and not just think they were flat out lunatics?