Controversy !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

How does everyone feel about the saying " If its brown its down" . Personally i think that anyone who beleives in this saying, word for word, should be put down themselves. Theres a group who hunts near me that beleives in this as the gospel. At any time during season you will find spike bucks, yearling does, 4 pointers etc. Now doesn' t that make you proud!

What are your thoughts?

Hunt on Hunt hard Eat well!

RE: Controversy !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

[ How do you judge the age of a running rabbit or a flying pheasant?

I once chastised someone here who talked about a family member having shot 2 spike bucks in one day. The more I thought about it, the more I realized I wrong. I was judging by what I, at this time and date of many years of hunting, would do and not do.

If someone simply wants to take home some venison, there is absolutely nothing unethical about shooting a spike buck, a four-point buck, or a yearling doe. Some of the antler hunters would be opposed to the shooting of young bucks.

In fact, there are studies that have shown that not all " spike" bucks are young deer, and that a " spike" buck is considered to be inferior and will never grow a large or heavy set of antlers and probably should be removed from the gene pool.

Shooting a yearling doe does not hurt anything. That yearling has less of a chance in becoming an adult doe before it is killed or dies from other causes. Best leave some of the older, smarter, and stronger does in the gene pool.

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No it wouldn' t make me proud, but for others any of those deer are true trophies. I have in the past used my quality standards as guidlines for others and have come to realize that I was wrong.

One of my best hunting buddies does go by the brown its down theory, and although it is not my own I have learned to respect how he hunts. Every deer he shoots makes him proud and happy, he eats it all and hunts with a respect for the animal.

And there was a time when I stayed up all night dreaming and praying for a chance at a forkie or spike - and I even took a few.

Poor decisions, poor shots, poor ethics gets under my skin much more than poor selection.

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I usely take a young doe for the freezer right away if I dont see a buck
first. If its toward the end of season gun or bow Iwill take a smaller buck.

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Sorry Chef#1, I think your dead wrong.[:' (] If the law permits hunters to take
these inferior animals, then why should hunters let them all walk by. Many
hunters can go for weeks without seeing a deer. If a doe or spike walks into
the crosshairs, and the hunter has the permits, and wants the meat, how can
you possibly say he is in the wrong for shooting this animal?? I' ve taken many
nice wall hangers and I' ve also taken many does and toy bucks for meat. I can
honestly say that I was extremely proud of every deer I put on the wall as well
as in the freezer. I know many hunters who vow " If it' s brown, it' s down" before
the hunt begins. It' s kind of like football players yelling " Let' s kill em!" I really
don' t think either of them should be " Put down themselves" .

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i agree about the meat thing but the term garbage racks and inferior bucks has been proven wrong. bucks if given time as in years may still produce quality. many use those terms to simply shoot at anything.in my neck of the woods they say if the bush moves shoot it. it just shows the stupidity of those hunters that only hunt for the thrill of just killing.

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It really could be dependent on the condition of the deer herd and population. There are places where numbers are just SO high that, that kind of thinking is perfectly right to thin the critters. Once thinned you go about selective killing. In many areas deer are severely overpopulated. Some people just flat prefer younger tender meat. If they have a tag and want to shoot an 60 or 75 pound doe.... so be it. I don' t, but I know people who do. I hunt with someone who passes up all sorts of bucks waiting on some tasty morsel to walk by. I live in an area of limited land access, low hunter numbers and therefore we have UNLIMITED doe permits. I also belong to an organization that is called upon to go into residential areas and take out deer by a variety of means... depending on circumstances. If you hunt one of those properties the rules are.... " You better shoot... and it doesn' t matter what it is" .(unless there is a no buck restriction) They call on us to take them out, plain and simple. In those properties we' re called in for a reason. They really don' t care if Bill Jordan wants to shoot a Pope and Young deer. They want him dead before he eats all the daylillies.

When I go to other areas I make the rules... FOR ME. I don' t try to tell everyone else what they should do so I can enjoy hunting. I paid for tags in several states and let lots of bucks walk by that would have been dead here in Maryland. I also have a lot of those unfilled tags hanging around the basement. My last trip to Ohio I passed 4 bucks the last night that would have been dead here. If I' m hunting a crop damage permit... if it has no horns and is brown... IT' S Probably DOWN.

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Quality what?

RE: Controversy !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Our state game laws set my standards. I passed on two cow elk last year because they were not big enough for me and they had a calf with them. Although it was my only opportunity for an elk I have never regretted not taking a shot at the bigger of the two cows.

I too have taken several Whitetail and Blacktail wall hangers and would not hesitate to take another but my main objective is to put meat in the freezer and I' d much rather tale a doe or a cow . . . has anyone ever seen a recipe for cooking antlers.

I apply for bull permits every year and one of these times I' ll draw one. However, my objective is meat and I will take any mature bull or cow, and I will talke a spike bull. For deer [Mule] where in generally hunt we are allowed to take a 3-point or better buck or antlerless. Our seasons are set here with a specific goal of maintaining a certain Buck to Doe or Bull to Cow populations; to my way of thinking, I have an obligation to follow the game laws as established.

AND . . . I am just as proud of the doe I shot last year as I am of my 4X5 Blacktail a few years ago. More important thouhg I deepely respect and honor each and every animal I take and I will not allow one ounce of my game to be wasted . . . NOT ONE.

My favorite saying when it comes to game is: If it ain' t movin, it is overcooked.

RE: Controversy !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Well this thread is definitely aptly titled. Few comments other than the original one in this thread have the potential to create such a discussion.

My opinion, as always, to each his own.

RE: Controversy !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

A trophy is special to the one who shoots it, and his dad. I have a room full of hides and heads and I eat well. As long as you don' t waste your bounty then to each his own. I hunt in an over populated area and deer heards are abundant. I hunt to have quality time with my son and other family members, but I don' t go home hungry either. In my area you have to shoot a doe first before you can take a buck. Each time we cook a roast here at the house we always try to guess is it a doe or buck?? The rack sticking out of the crock pot gives it away sometimes.:D[&:]

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what i meant by quality could be a nice thick beam non typical 17 point. if you shoot a small fork horn in its first year you will never know. this has been discussed quite a bit on the outdoor shows. sometimes you just gotta forget about the old ways of thinking and get on board with what the deer researchers are finding out. anyway i agree the trophy is in the eye of the beholder. not all of us can hunt in prime areas like illinois. but then again i will never pay 2000$ for a hunt either.

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I dont agree with it at all.....i do take my fair share of does during the bow season but i also have let many deer walk. To each his own, as long as he identifies his target and it is legal game.

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My thoughts are who gives you the right to judge others because they don' t believe the same thing you do? If it is legal how is it any of your business? Do these people come down to your camp and tell you how to hunt? Then why don' t you stay the **** out of there business unless you hear of them breaking a law;)

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Funny thing. I' ve never felt guilty with a grilled sirloin and some A1 on the plate. If horn-hunting' s your deal, great. Nothing wrong with it, and be the best you can. Just please don' t presume to tell everyone else they should share your priorities.

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Even though I may not understand some one else' s hunting view or motto, as long as no laws are being broken and they are being safe hunters, they can do what they want.

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Each one of my posts say " Put some brown on the ground" , but Im VERY selective, and still have little trouble putting brown down. I take does every year and will take a small buck if given the opportunity on public land or special hunts if possible. I take only mature bucks and does on my property, so not a lot of bucks are taken. Any deer or animal with archery equipment is a trophy to anyone who takes it. So I think should do what tey feel is appropriate and put some brown down!:D

RE: Controversy !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

When I hear , If its brown its down, I think of that young man who was going hunting with dad last season in OHIO and some guy shot his dad with a broadhead as they were going to their stand one morning, ALL THAT' S BROWN - I don' t think so.

RE: Controversy !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Highbow, I' m pretty new to this site but I have to disagree with you. What you refer to has nothing to do with the saying " if its brown its down" as said by some of our fellow HUNTERS. IMO and for what it is worth what you are referring to is unethical and criminal. When a HUNTER says " if its brown its down" they don' t just go out shooting the bushes. Whether you or I agree with it, if a HUNTER wants to take game no matter what its size or how many points it will score then that is his right as long as it is legal and neither you nor I have the right to judge him. A HUNTER would never shoot bushes and assume it was an animal. An unethical person and a criminal would but a HUNTER would not. Please let' s not refer to a Hunter as someone who would shoot the bushes because they made a silly statement, thats what hurts the HUNTERS image is when we refer to criminals as HUNTERS. There is a big difference.

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Very nicely put, LA Hornhunter. Welcome to the forum.

RE: Controversy !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Since this is the bow hunting forum, my reply is this: If the person who downs the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd thing they see and will eat it, congratulations! You have consumed an animal that nature intended to be ate. I' ve bowhunted since 91 and haven' t picked up a gun since. I' ll shoot the 1st brown that walks by. I may shoot the next brown that walks by. The 3rd, I may be selective now. I have a wife and 3 boys that love eatin deer meat. My time at home (if I' m lucky to be home and not deployed) is valuable. I move to several places meaning I know no locals and have to figure the land and deer by myself. I don' t have the luxury anymore to know where the bigguns are usually taken and know the farmer that has land to hunt on that isn' t leased, etc, etc. So, when I find land to hunt on, and I see a doe or young buck, I' m gonna try to put him/her in the freezer.

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IMHO I think that most hunters say that frase is near the end of the season and they haven' t filled their tag or when they are party hunting and helping fill someone' s tag at the very end of the season.

RE: Controversy !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

I appriciate all the candid responses to this topic. My property is in an area that there are not alot of animals. We work very hard at qdm year round, and it is outragious(in my opinion) to see a young animal hanging on a pole. I beleive that selection of a quality animal for harvesting is every hunters responsibility. I also realize that the younger the animal, the better the quality of meat for the freezer. But what will happen if we reduce the young herd to the point of no return.

Once again, thanks for all the spirited discussion. This is what makes us individuals.


Hunt on Hunt hard Eat well

RE: Controversy !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

It' s hard to change old habits and ways. Some folks are brought up to shoot a LEGAL deer. They do it with pride. They would say " HOW DARE YOU... try to tell them how to hunt, what legal animal to shoot etc etc" AND, they do have a point. Some people are simply hunters for the sake of getting out, accomplishing their goal(shoot an animal) and could give a darn about your QDM. It is their right just as much as it' s yours to set your OWN goals. Some people don' t have as much time to spend in the woods as others. They get a day a week or a couple days a season. They are included in the numbers of " Supporters of the hunting community" . You try to slander them and make them something less than they are or say they' re detrimental to your hunting. Make your way the law and 99 % will obey. Until that happens they' re having fun in the pursuit of a sport they love... maybe even more than you. Get off the soap box.

Words I hate: HARVEST [:' (] : It' s killing
QDM: (Simply another way of saying horn hunter for most)
TROPHY: It' s deer meat for gosh sakes.
MATURE ANIMAL: Same as last two in most cases

RE: Controversy !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

My partner and I guide hunters here in PA, and the only limits we set are the ones established by the GC. I figure that if Joe Hunter brings his child to hunt ,and it' s their 1st,let em have at it!!In fact we encourage the taking of does and if your down to your last hours and paid us $600 , who are we to say " go home empty handed" . Now I' ve hunted alot of places and w/some good and some bad hunters but never judged one on basis of trophy quality. For instance , this year my eldest son took his 1st turkey. It was a 16 lb jake . Some thought it a bad idea to let him kill it. They assumed that it was killing for the sake of killing. But those who know us personally, have seen the work he put into it (scouting, hours in the rain,and pre dawn hours of patience only to have to go to school of all things LOL).These few understood it for the true " trophy" it is!! I myself have killed lots of younger bucks in my time, but have" graduated" . I myself hold off for " good" bucks at first but since I love venison as does my entire family,I' ll shoot meat!!! I also Know people locally who have several kids and maybe only one parent workin or both out of job. A few does can go along way. This year with my son hunting we' ll have six tags ,but half of our meat will go to a lady who is the soul provider for 11 kids!! So I guess all in all I' m saying judge not what you don' t know. Sorry for the essay but just my 4 cents

RE: Controversy !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

CHEF, HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT KILLING YOUNG ANIMALS WILL REDUCE THE HERD TO A POINT OF NO RETURN????
THAT' S WHY THE LAWS ARE THERE!! IF YOU OBEY THE LAWS (I KNOW NOT EVERYONE DOES) THEN THERE SHOULDN' T BE ANY RESON FOR THAT TO HAPPEN.

I THINK IT' S OUTRAGEOUS FOR A HORN HUNTER (OR ANYONE ELSE) TO PASS JUDGEMENT ON SOMEONE FOR KILLING YOUNG ANIMALS.

RE: Controversy !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

I believe in this saying on the last day of shotgun season and the last week of bow season. Otherwise it aint up to me to judge what others do and dont do.

RE: Controversy !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

I' m thinking it' s too early in the year to get into this crap again.
I' ll wait till wolfen68 shows up , then I' ll tell ya what I think[8D]

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BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Exactly!!

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Not everyone hunts big bucks. I don' t have a problem with shooting anything other than a spotted fawn. I like big racks too but the main reason I hunt is because I LOVE venison.:D

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[Deleted by Admins]

RE: Controversy !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

I and my hunting partners have practiced QDM for years. Basically for us the rule has been that a buck' s rack had to be outside the ears. Now here in Wisconsin, we have land just bordering Buffalo County, considered to be one of the best spots for trophy bucks in North America. Most of our neighbors also practice QDM, so we often see big bucks and are fortunate enough to sometimes harvest big bucks. But I also realize that many hunters don' t have the same luxury. To some, a 6-pointer with a 9 inch spread may be a nice deer. If so, that' s great and I can be happy for them

Having said that, I don' t believe that hunting should ever be just about the size of the rack. It is still about having fun. What may be a trophy to one hunter may be a scrub to another. Don' t get me wrong: I wouldn' t like to go back to the " shoot it if it has horns" days, but one needs to be reasonable about things as well. Myself, I' m generally more interested if the hunter is happy with the trophy than if I think it was " one that I would have shot" . What I mean is that I have seen some supposed " big-buck-only hunters" get all lathered up about a 16 year old who shoots an 8-pointer with an 11-inch spread. In my opinion, the deer is probably a trophy to the kid, and he or she will remember it for the rest of their life. Is it worth getting all riled up over that and making the kid feel like they really screwed up? Just my opinion, but I don' t think so.

I think we need to keep our priorities straight with regard to hunting. At least to me, it' s not about who shoots the biggest buck, who makes book, or even who gets the most rings of venison baloney. It' s about having fun. It' s about enjoying the outdoors. It' s about the rush you get when a deer...any deer...walks right by your treestand and has no idea that you are there. Maybe you don' t even see a deer. Maybe you get to see a couple of bald eagles roost in a nearby tree while sitting in the stand. Or maybe it' s a badger or bear that walks by. And most importantly, its about having a good time with your hunting buddies.

To me, that' s what it should be about.

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Amen! TJD could not have been said any better

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Yep. What that guy up there said. :D

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I guess I missed the memo that said hunting was supposed to be a contest.

I am all for having fun!:D

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I must hontestly say that the first legal deer I see that presents an opportunity will end up in my freezer (especially if I' m bowhunting). After that, I become very selective.

Everyone hunts for different reasons and as long as it' s legal I don' t give a hoot what or how someone else hunts. I' m just glad they' re in the field supporting what I love.

RE: Controversy !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

I myself try to take a doe or 2 for the freezer and let small bucks walk, but I will not starve if I take none of them. But there are people out there that depend haevily on harvesting venison for food. When I carry someone hunting with me or when I go with someone else it is always made clear what is expected ( no yearling does or spikes for example). Beside hear in Mississippi spikes are illegal. Personally I will not hunt with someone who goes by the motto if moves shoot it because that just is not safe. Just my opinion and everyone has one.

RE: Controversy !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

I also strongly agree with TJD. Trophies come in all sizes and shapes. My nine year old step son shot the ugliest little 5 pt. buck with maybe a 7 in. spread while hunting with his dad and that boy was as happy as I was when I took my 9pt. i mounted.

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This is my third year hunting, and sadly, I have been unsuccessful. The way I look at it, I' m not in it for the killing, I' m in it for the sport and the meat. If I see a doe this season, I' m gonna shoot it first chance I get. If I see a spike this season, I' m gonna shoot it first chance I get. If I see any deer, worth shooting (obviously not fawns!), I' m gonna shoot it if the opportunity arises. As someone once told me:

You can' t eat antlers!

Mike,-

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I know some of the fellas that shotgun hunt around here only got permission from the farmers who own the land because they will take every deer that presents a good shot. Tell a farmer who has deer problems that you let animals walk because you didn`t think they were big enough and I`ll show you a farmer who is looking for someone else to hunt his land.