Does the loop on your string effect draw length?
08-20-2009, 04:05 PM
#11
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 7,208
I've read a lot of people more knowledgeable than me about archery argue this point back & forth over the years.
My opinion is that a loop changes your anchor not your draw length. If you refuse to change your anchor, then yes your draw length changes.
My opinion is that a loop changes your anchor not your draw length. If you refuse to change your anchor, then yes your draw length changes.
08-20-2009, 05:49 PM
#13
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
I agree with this 100%, TFox. It comes down to "which came first....the chicken or the egg". To find your proper DL....you need to know how long of a loop you're gonna be utilizing (to hit your proper anchors....whatever they might be). But if you have the proper anchor points down....there's only one draw length that will be correct. Right?
So....if you then change your loop length....what has to change? It certainly won't be your DL. It'll be your anchor points.
Am I seeing this all wrong?
So....if you then change your loop length....what has to change? It certainly won't be your DL. It'll be your anchor points.
Am I seeing this all wrong?
Shoot without a loop and your draw length is longer.So HOW can a loop NOT affect your draw length? I have shot both,28 1/2" with a short loop and a 28" with a long loop.Both are correct for me and I hit all my anchors but for outdoor shooting and hunting,the 28" is more comfortable.If I were to shoot indoor,the 28 1/2" would be more comfortable.
Seems to me those that say your draw length isn't affected by a loop have NEVER shot without one.Try fingers,does that not change your draw length as well?
I do agree that your anchors change with a loop,not arguning that at all.I totally agree 100%,the only thing I dispute is your draw length can and does vary dependant upon the equipment and loop length.
Last edited by TFOX; 08-20-2009 at 05:53 PM.
08-20-2009, 06:01 PM
#14
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
28 1/2" with a short loop.Please forgive the double set.I have really gotten better with that.
28" with a short loop,definately too short.The bow shoulder is riding up and release elbow isn't back far enough.
28" with long loop,great for hunting and 3-d
28" with a short loop,definately too short.The bow shoulder is riding up and release elbow isn't back far enough.
28" with long loop,great for hunting and 3-d
08-20-2009, 06:09 PM
#15
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
I put this in the same category as leaning back as a sign of draw length being too long.Leaning back is leaning back.Draw length is independant of that.They both go under internet myths.
Most would be very well served spending some time with actuall coaches.Much can be learned on the net but to really get down to the "nuts and bolts" of it,you need one on one instruction by qualified instructors.
Most would be very well served spending some time with actuall coaches.Much can be learned on the net but to really get down to the "nuts and bolts" of it,you need one on one instruction by qualified instructors.
08-20-2009, 06:37 PM
#16
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Florida & PA
Posts: 570
Shoot without a loop and your draw length is longer.So HOW can a loop NOT affect your draw length? I have shot both,28 1/2" with a short loop and a 28" with a long loop.Both are correct for me and I hit all my anchors but for outdoor shooting and hunting,the 28" is more comfortable.If I were to shoot indoor,the 28 1/2" would be more comfortable.
Seems to me those that say your draw length isn't affected by a loop have NEVER shot without one.Try fingers,does that not change your draw length as well?
I do agree that your anchors change with a loop,not arguning that at all.I totally agree 100%,the only thing I dispute is your draw length can and does vary dependant upon the equipment and loop length.
Seems to me those that say your draw length isn't affected by a loop have NEVER shot without one.Try fingers,does that not change your draw length as well?
I do agree that your anchors change with a loop,not arguning that at all.I totally agree 100%,the only thing I dispute is your draw length can and does vary dependant upon the equipment and loop length.
Back to your first paragraph in the quote, what I am saying is that if you are a 28" draw and you lengthen to 28.5" inches you are at the least changing the angle of your face away from the target and therefore diminishing your optimal sight picture. By maintaining the same draw length (shelf to string at full draw), you develop a consistent sight picture regardless of how long or short your loop is. From that point you customize your loop length to suit your anchor.
08-20-2009, 07:02 PM
#17
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
I guess the issue is what is the definition of draw length then. To me draw length is the distance from the front of the shelf to string at full draw. I believe that is what most would say. Draw length is not from the front of the shelf to the back of the d-loop. Am I wrong on that?
Back to your first paragraph in the quote, what I am saying is that if you are a 28" draw and you lengthen to 28.5" inches you are at the least changing the angle of your face away from the target and therefore diminishing your optimal sight picture. By maintaining the same draw length (shelf to string at full draw), you develop a consistent sight picture regardless of how long or short your loop is. From that point you customize your loop length to suit your anchor.
Back to your first paragraph in the quote, what I am saying is that if you are a 28" draw and you lengthen to 28.5" inches you are at the least changing the angle of your face away from the target and therefore diminishing your optimal sight picture. By maintaining the same draw length (shelf to string at full draw), you develop a consistent sight picture regardless of how long or short your loop is. From that point you customize your loop length to suit your anchor.
Draw length is a combination of all things relevant.The bows draw length does not change with a loop but the shooters draw length does.The shooters draw length is the ONLY THING that matters.The bow doesn't care.
Look at the videos and tell me where my sight picture changes.
Last edited by TFOX; 08-20-2009 at 07:04 PM.
08-20-2009, 07:11 PM
#18
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
The key are anchors,you have that figured out.Anchors can be adjusted up and down as well as forward and back.
The first video is where the coach had me.I later found I liked the shorter draw length for outdoors.BUT,the longer is still "correct" and preferred for indoors.
The first video is where the coach had me.I later found I liked the shorter draw length for outdoors.BUT,the longer is still "correct" and preferred for indoors.
08-20-2009, 07:15 PM
#19
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
I guess the issue is what is the definition of draw length then. To me draw length is the distance from the front of the shelf to string at full draw. I believe that is what most would say. Draw length is not from the front of the shelf to the back of the d-loop. Am I wrong on that?
Back to your first paragraph in the quote, what I am saying is that if you are a 28" draw and you lengthen to 28.5" inches you are at the least changing the angle of your face away from the target and therefore diminishing your optimal sight picture. By maintaining the same draw length (shelf to string at full draw), you develop a consistent sight picture regardless of how long or short your loop is. From that point you customize your loop length to suit your anchor.
Back to your first paragraph in the quote, what I am saying is that if you are a 28" draw and you lengthen to 28.5" inches you are at the least changing the angle of your face away from the target and therefore diminishing your optimal sight picture. By maintaining the same draw length (shelf to string at full draw), you develop a consistent sight picture regardless of how long or short your loop is. From that point you customize your loop length to suit your anchor.
Technically,this is incorrect,although Mathews did say this for a while,maybe they still do.The AMO draw length is from the deepest part of the grip to the nocking point of the arrow on the string,EVEN with berger hole at full draw PLUS 1 3/4"
