Who takes this shot on an Elk
05-22-2009, 01:33 PM
#61
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Who takes this shot on an Elk
I have to disagree with you. Ethics and morals, while related, are different. In this sense (hunting) ethics are based on individual personal beliefs and convictions or the personal beliefs and convictions of a group. For one person or group to say that someone else is an unethical hunter because he or she doesn't hold the same beliefs or convictions doesn't hold water.
What really blows me away is someone else getting upset about someone else's ethics,especially when they don't even know the person.
To ME,bowhunting is getting the desired game within MY effective range of which I can make an ethical shot on.My effective range is whatever "I" determine it to be.Abilty and the situation are the criteria for which I use.
You define bowhunting for you and "I" will define it for ME.
I detest Tred Barta's show ,I think he is unethical purely because he isn't proficient with his equipment and he will take shots he isn't capable of making.I don't watch his show because of it but I could really care less what he does,it is his life.(I do hope he gets well soon)
05-22-2009, 01:52 PM
#62
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Who takes this shot on an Elk
ORIGINAL: HOGHUNTINGUNLIMITED
336
No need to get exited... Yes if it's sighted in. I have mine sighted in for 75 yards. You figure it out, and its gonna drop about 7 inches... I put it 7 inches higher than I wanted and BOOM, he dropped in his tracks... It was a clear cut, so if I would have made a bad shot, I would have just watched him till he stopped, and put another one in him... Where with a bow, Even if you are the best in the state, it takes an arrow (my arrow) about 4 full seconds to hit a target at 100 yards... A lot can happen in that time! That arrow could be headed right for the heart, but the animal takes a step and now you got a gut shot, and a lots of brush that it could hide in. I know a guy that shot a elk at 40 yards with his bow, and the thing took a step and he hit it in the liver, so 100 yards, you could be hittin some hind quarters.
So you say you shoot 300yrds with a gun. Is that a high percentage shot with a gun?
No need to get exited... Yes if it's sighted in. I have mine sighted in for 75 yards. You figure it out, and its gonna drop about 7 inches... I put it 7 inches higher than I wanted and BOOM, he dropped in his tracks... It was a clear cut, so if I would have made a bad shot, I would have just watched him till he stopped, and put another one in him... Where with a bow, Even if you are the best in the state, it takes an arrow (my arrow) about 4 full seconds to hit a target at 100 yards... A lot can happen in that time! That arrow could be headed right for the heart, but the animal takes a step and now you got a gut shot, and a lots of brush that it could hide in. I know a guy that shot a elk at 40 yards with his bow, and the thing took a step and he hit it in the liver, so 100 yards, you could be hittin some hind quarters.
Really,4 seconds.My bow will cover 100 yards in 1.3 seconds and I don't shoot a fast setup.
That's not saying I shoot 100 yards or condone it or that I don't condone it but most bows shoot much faster than that and MOST,not all high powered rifles drop much more than 7 inches at 300 when sighted in at 75.Mine drops 8" at 300 when sighted in "0" at 200.
05-22-2009, 03:04 PM
#63
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 264
RE: Who takes this shot on an Elk
ORIGINAL: Muliefever
Ethics/morals... They go hand in hand! Your world class archer buddy is a jackass! Who told you he is a world class archer? He has sponsors and a big check book. Please, give me a break. Myself along with a thousand other everyday joe's are "World Class Archer's"
We preach ethics, teach new generations the true meaning of bowhunting; and most importantly we sure and the hell don't take 82 yd shots at a living game animal!
Now, I am not doubting your ability to make a shot on an elk at 70 yds. I too believe I can make that shot. And my Black ice has more then enough KE.. However, what if.. There are things you can control. The shot, maybe your lucky enough to have Great weather conditions. Now, read this carefully... YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO CONTROL THE ACTION or MOVEMENT OF ANY ANIMAL....... If you made a bad shot on a animal at that distance.. I would hope you would feel horrible! And I hope you would have learned your lesson. And I hope from that day forth you would hunt with a rifle!
ORIGINAL: OklaBowhunter
Tha word ethical I really dont like. Really depends on differnt regions we hunt. Each hunter gets to make that choice. If I had a open shot on an Elk at 70yrds and conditions were right. I just think I would take that shot. Big kill area and with arrow at 300fps. I feel the KE of my hunting arrow would peneatrate. Friend of mine shot his Caribou at 82yrds. He a world class pro archer. He said the guides were not happy about him taking that long of shot.
DB
ORIGINAL: Muliefever
Well I am glad to see you calrify that you are a BOWHUNTER. IMHO, I do not think that long range shooting on a game animal is ethical. We all know that the further the animal is away, the higher probability of error. Wether it be hunter, weather, or animal. Bows now days are so fast that the speed does take the difficulty out of the shot. However, We all owe it to the animal to make the most ethical shot that we can make. There is no perfect shot, anything can and will go wrong. If there was someone hunting with me, and they took a shot at a animal that was unethical. i.e Running, windy, the list goes on. 72 yds. One they would never hunt with me again. And two, I would probably bloody thier nose.
Well I am glad to see you calrify that you are a BOWHUNTER. IMHO, I do not think that long range shooting on a game animal is ethical. We all know that the further the animal is away, the higher probability of error. Wether it be hunter, weather, or animal. Bows now days are so fast that the speed does take the difficulty out of the shot. However, We all owe it to the animal to make the most ethical shot that we can make. There is no perfect shot, anything can and will go wrong. If there was someone hunting with me, and they took a shot at a animal that was unethical. i.e Running, windy, the list goes on. 72 yds. One they would never hunt with me again. And two, I would probably bloody thier nose.
DB
Ethics/morals... They go hand in hand! Your world class archer buddy is a jackass! Who told you he is a world class archer? He has sponsors and a big check book. Please, give me a break. Myself along with a thousand other everyday joe's are "World Class Archer's"
We preach ethics, teach new generations the true meaning of bowhunting; and most importantly we sure and the hell don't take 82 yd shots at a living game animal!
Now, I am not doubting your ability to make a shot on an elk at 70 yds. I too believe I can make that shot. And my Black ice has more then enough KE.. However, what if.. There are things you can control. The shot, maybe your lucky enough to have Great weather conditions. Now, read this carefully... YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO CONTROL THE ACTION or MOVEMENT OF ANY ANIMAL....... If you made a bad shot on a animal at that distance.. I would hope you would feel horrible! And I hope you would have learned your lesson. And I hope from that day forth you would hunt with a rifle!
Well now you have went and insulted my opionion. I know someone that has dedicated there life to shooting a bow and has made aliving at it doing it better than you could ever shoot on your best day. What the heck have you ever dedicted your life too and been successfull. You judge someone that has shot a bow from a young age of boy against the best archers in the world and you think thats not world class. (Give me a break) He has more game on the walls and has guided many in Colorado for years. And no one gave him a thing and he earned everthing from being dirt poor. He wants to take a shot at 82yrds you have no right to judge anyone. So now the thread has turned into your self rightous way or no way.
Get over your self and realize its not your call to tell me or anyone how to hunt! So much for having an intelligent conversation and everyone respecting each other. You hunt any way you want and other will do the same. Quit the name calling its uncalled for on this thread or any where. Just shows your disrespect for fellow hunters.
DB
05-22-2009, 03:30 PM
#64
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 264
RE: Who takes this shot on an Elk
Muliefever
When did hunting become a average joes against anyone? Someone that is a beginner or someone that has hunted his entire life guiding and dedicating his entire life is the same. Never fails there always someon on the net that cant wait to jump and call someone a name and critasize what they do and how they do it. It often just jealousy and nothing more. I take youth all the time in the field and have the pictures to prove what I do. I took a disable vet this year. We are all hunters and no one is better than the other. That is what many will never understand. Anyone can buy a hunting license and as long as he not breaking any game laws its none of your buisness how he hunts. So give your opionion without insults and your higher than mighty ethics. Your ethics dont mean nothing to anyone but yourself.
DB
Would you judge this guy. Disabled vet with a steel plate in his head for hunting. He certianly is not no cracker jack shot and actually is very disabled due to the injury he got while over seas in a miltary conflict. I didnt know the guy from adam. He called and wanted me to help him get a deer. Is it right for me to judge him and his skills and say he shouldnt hunt? Im glad many hunter dont judge others and force there ethics on all of us. I dont care who your are you have a right to hunt any way you want.
Click on link for video
http://s194.photobucket.com/albums/z...cture067-1.flv
When did hunting become a average joes against anyone? Someone that is a beginner or someone that has hunted his entire life guiding and dedicating his entire life is the same. Never fails there always someon on the net that cant wait to jump and call someone a name and critasize what they do and how they do it. It often just jealousy and nothing more. I take youth all the time in the field and have the pictures to prove what I do. I took a disable vet this year. We are all hunters and no one is better than the other. That is what many will never understand. Anyone can buy a hunting license and as long as he not breaking any game laws its none of your buisness how he hunts. So give your opionion without insults and your higher than mighty ethics. Your ethics dont mean nothing to anyone but yourself.
DB
Would you judge this guy. Disabled vet with a steel plate in his head for hunting. He certianly is not no cracker jack shot and actually is very disabled due to the injury he got while over seas in a miltary conflict. I didnt know the guy from adam. He called and wanted me to help him get a deer. Is it right for me to judge him and his skills and say he shouldnt hunt? Im glad many hunter dont judge others and force there ethics on all of us. I dont care who your are you have a right to hunt any way you want.
Click on link for video
http://s194.photobucket.com/albums/z...cture067-1.flv
05-22-2009, 07:32 PM
#65
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 9,445
RE: Who takes this shot on an Elk
ORIGINAL: TFOX
Really,4 seconds.My bow will cover 100 yards in 1.3 seconds and I don't shoot a fast setup.
That's not saying I shoot 100 yards or condone it or that I don't condone it but most bows shoot much faster than that and MOST,not all high powered rifles drop much more than 7 inches at 300 when sighted in at 75.Mine drops 8" at 300 when sighted in "0" at 200.
ORIGINAL: HOGHUNTINGUNLIMITED
336
No need to get exited... Yes if it's sighted in. I have mine sighted in for 75 yards. You figure it out, and its gonna drop about 7 inches... I put it 7 inches higher than I wanted and BOOM, he dropped in his tracks... It was a clear cut, so if I would have made a bad shot, I would have just watched him till he stopped, and put another one in him... Where with a bow, Even if you are the best in the state, it takes an arrow (my arrow) about 4 full seconds to hit a target at 100 yards... A lot can happen in that time! That arrow could be headed right for the heart, but the animal takes a step and now you got a gut shot, and a lots of brush that it could hide in. I know a guy that shot a elk at 40 yards with his bow, and the thing took a step and he hit it in the liver, so 100 yards, you could be hittin some hind quarters.
So you say you shoot 300yrds with a gun. Is that a high percentage shot with a gun?
No need to get exited... Yes if it's sighted in. I have mine sighted in for 75 yards. You figure it out, and its gonna drop about 7 inches... I put it 7 inches higher than I wanted and BOOM, he dropped in his tracks... It was a clear cut, so if I would have made a bad shot, I would have just watched him till he stopped, and put another one in him... Where with a bow, Even if you are the best in the state, it takes an arrow (my arrow) about 4 full seconds to hit a target at 100 yards... A lot can happen in that time! That arrow could be headed right for the heart, but the animal takes a step and now you got a gut shot, and a lots of brush that it could hide in. I know a guy that shot a elk at 40 yards with his bow, and the thing took a step and he hit it in the liver, so 100 yards, you could be hittin some hind quarters.
Really,4 seconds.My bow will cover 100 yards in 1.3 seconds and I don't shoot a fast setup.
That's not saying I shoot 100 yards or condone it or that I don't condone it but most bows shoot much faster than that and MOST,not all high powered rifles drop much more than 7 inches at 300 when sighted in at 75.Mine drops 8" at 300 when sighted in "0" at 200.
05-22-2009, 07:32 PM
#66
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 9,445
RE: Who takes this shot on an Elk
ORIGINAL: Muliefever
Ethics/morals... They go hand in hand! Your world class archer buddy is a jackass! Who told you he is a world class archer? He has sponsors and a big check book. Please, give me a break. Myself along with a thousand other everyday joe's are "World Class Archer's"
We preach ethics, teach new generations the true meaning of bowhunting; and most importantly we sure and the hell don't take 82 yd shots at a living game animal!
Now, I am not doubting your ability to make a shot on an elk at 70 yds. I too believe I can make that shot. And my Black ice has more then enough KE.. However, what if.. There are things you can control. The shot, maybe your lucky enough to have Great weather conditions. Now, read this carefully... YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO CONTROL THE ACTION or MOVEMENT OF ANY ANIMAL....... If you made a bad shot on a animal at that distance.. I would hope you would feel horrible! And I hope you would have learned your lesson. And I hope from that day forth you would hunt with a rifle!
ORIGINAL: OklaBowhunter
Tha word ethical I really dont like. Really depends on differnt regions we hunt. Each hunter gets to make that choice. If I had a open shot on an Elk at 70yrds and conditions were right. I just think I would take that shot. Big kill area and with arrow at 300fps. I feel the KE of my hunting arrow would peneatrate. Friend of mine shot his Caribou at 82yrds. He a world class pro archer. He said the guides were not happy about him taking that long of shot.
DB
ORIGINAL: Muliefever
Well I am glad to see you calrify that you are a BOWHUNTER. IMHO, I do not think that long range shooting on a game animal is ethical. We all know that the further the animal is away, the higher probability of error. Wether it be hunter, weather, or animal. Bows now days are so fast that the speed does take the difficulty out of the shot. However, We all owe it to the animal to make the most ethical shot that we can make. There is no perfect shot, anything can and will go wrong. If there was someone hunting with me, and they took a shot at a animal that was unethical. i.e Running, windy, the list goes on. 72 yds. One they would never hunt with me again. And two, I would probably bloody thier nose.
Well I am glad to see you calrify that you are a BOWHUNTER. IMHO, I do not think that long range shooting on a game animal is ethical. We all know that the further the animal is away, the higher probability of error. Wether it be hunter, weather, or animal. Bows now days are so fast that the speed does take the difficulty out of the shot. However, We all owe it to the animal to make the most ethical shot that we can make. There is no perfect shot, anything can and will go wrong. If there was someone hunting with me, and they took a shot at a animal that was unethical. i.e Running, windy, the list goes on. 72 yds. One they would never hunt with me again. And two, I would probably bloody thier nose.
DB
Ethics/morals... They go hand in hand! Your world class archer buddy is a jackass! Who told you he is a world class archer? He has sponsors and a big check book. Please, give me a break. Myself along with a thousand other everyday joe's are "World Class Archer's"
We preach ethics, teach new generations the true meaning of bowhunting; and most importantly we sure and the hell don't take 82 yd shots at a living game animal!
Now, I am not doubting your ability to make a shot on an elk at 70 yds. I too believe I can make that shot. And my Black ice has more then enough KE.. However, what if.. There are things you can control. The shot, maybe your lucky enough to have Great weather conditions. Now, read this carefully... YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO CONTROL THE ACTION or MOVEMENT OF ANY ANIMAL....... If you made a bad shot on a animal at that distance.. I would hope you would feel horrible! And I hope you would have learned your lesson. And I hope from that day forth you would hunt with a rifle!
05-22-2009, 10:51 PM
#67
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Kuna Idaho
Posts: 115
RE: Who takes this shot on an Elk
I will say this much most of you eastern bow hunters haven't even heard of such a thing as the bow hunters education certification, well out here in Idaho it is all of the western fast draw, long shot, BS that is now why we (Idahoans) have to get certified as archers, due to the lack of ethics and false pretenses of todays equipment. As stated sure todays bows are fast but at distance they lose all that speed and thus all the KE!!! Those of you who take the I will decide what is in my ethics; I got news for ya, this certification for archery is spreading and it will be on you before you know it!!! Most of this is on ethic s and I just went through the certification (passed it last night with a 99%) I know my ethical status and what makes us look bad, this is based on studies guys I am not preaching my outlook on it, I felt it was dumb for me to take a test to hunt with a bow when I have been hunting with a gun for 19 years. We have to band together and not get off on these little things because the fact is we are the minority and when the non-hunters (and I don't mean PETA and EJ) these are the folks who are standing on the sidelines not for or against hunting they are the ones who will vote out our hunting rights when they get reports of yeahoos out there shooting and wounding deer and elk taking shots at 100 yards which I don't care if you do hit it; it is NOT right and you should not make the shot... I have tracked down elk that had been shot poorly with a rifle at 100 yards and it took us days to find him, not very smart idea for those of you who are going to spend big money to go after an elk and have the three day tracking job and get to your elk and find a picked clean carcass!
05-23-2009, 03:16 AM
#70
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 264
RE: Who takes this shot on an Elk
ORIGINAL: ADV. Hunter
I will say this much most of you eastern bow hunters haven't even heard of such a thing as the bow hunters education certification, well out here in Idaho it is all of the western fast draw, long shot, BS that is now why we (Idahoans) have to get certified as archers, due to the lack of ethics and false pretenses of todays equipment. As stated sure todays bows are fast but at distance they lose all that speed and thus all the KE!!! Those of you who take the I will decide what is in my ethics; I got news for ya, this certification for archery is spreading and it will be on you before you know it!!! Most of this is on ethic s and I just went through the certification (passed it last night with a 99%) I know my ethical status and what makes us look bad, this is based on studies guys I am not preaching my outlook on it, I felt it was dumb for me to take a test to hunt with a bow when I have been hunting with a gun for 19 years. We have to band together and not get off on these little things because the fact is we are the minority and when the non-hunters (and I don't mean PETA and EJ) these are the folks who are standing on the sidelines not for or against hunting they are the ones who will vote out our hunting rights when they get reports of yeahoos out there shooting and wounding deer and elk taking shots at 100 yards which I don't care if you do hit it; it is NOT right and you should not make the shot... I have tracked down elk that had been shot poorly with a rifle at 100 yards and it took us days to find him, not very smart idea for those of you who are going to spend big money to go after an elk and have the three day tracking job and get to your elk and find a picked clean carcass!
I will say this much most of you eastern bow hunters haven't even heard of such a thing as the bow hunters education certification, well out here in Idaho it is all of the western fast draw, long shot, BS that is now why we (Idahoans) have to get certified as archers, due to the lack of ethics and false pretenses of todays equipment. As stated sure todays bows are fast but at distance they lose all that speed and thus all the KE!!! Those of you who take the I will decide what is in my ethics; I got news for ya, this certification for archery is spreading and it will be on you before you know it!!! Most of this is on ethic s and I just went through the certification (passed it last night with a 99%) I know my ethical status and what makes us look bad, this is based on studies guys I am not preaching my outlook on it, I felt it was dumb for me to take a test to hunt with a bow when I have been hunting with a gun for 19 years. We have to band together and not get off on these little things because the fact is we are the minority and when the non-hunters (and I don't mean PETA and EJ) these are the folks who are standing on the sidelines not for or against hunting they are the ones who will vote out our hunting rights when they get reports of yeahoos out there shooting and wounding deer and elk taking shots at 100 yards which I don't care if you do hit it; it is NOT right and you should not make the shot... I have tracked down elk that had been shot poorly with a rifle at 100 yards and it took us days to find him, not very smart idea for those of you who are going to spend big money to go after an elk and have the three day tracking job and get to your elk and find a picked clean carcass!
DB
DB