Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
02-13-2009, 04:07 AM
#31
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 250
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
Thanks for the info. guys. Yea, inMY situation unless I am hunting a field edge,which I rarely do, it is almost impossible for me to have a clear shot at more than 30 yrds. I do not own a rangefinder yet and was just wondering IF it was worth the difference in price because unless I looked WRONG at the mags you can buya Bushnell without any anglecompensation for around $150 that should be ok for bowhunting but the price is about $300 for one with ARC. Nikon's angle compensators start around $250. Anyway $100 is alot of difference IF I will not hunt anywhere but our farms but IF I ever went somewhere else I guess it may be possibly useful. Thanks again for all the input.
02-13-2009, 04:15 AM
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 3,465
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
ORIGINAL: fingerz42
TFOX,I see sort of what you're getting at, but you clearly have no phsyics background.
TFOX,I see sort of what you're getting at, but you clearly have no phsyics background.
Good one!
You guys crack me up. No one told you to rush out and buy one. No one told you it would be needed in 99% of treestand situations. All we said was, IF you are buying new, why the hell would you NOT buy one with this...seeing as the prices are right in line with nonArc models? If you are buying a new car, and the dealer desides to throw in 5 years of XM radio for free, are you goin to say nahhh, thats over rated. I want one without it.[&:]
And excalibur, YES steep angles DO make more of a difference? I don't see what is so hard for people to understand about this. 40 yards ranged at a 45* angle, would give you a much shorter shot than a 40 yard ranged at a 10* angle....make sense?
02-13-2009, 04:19 AM
#33
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,282
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
If I were getting a new range finder I would get the ARC. In most cases where I hunt, I can range a tree at my height to get the exact distance. If I were shooting 40 yards out into a field it would be better to have the exact yardage and not be 3-5 yards off, at 40 yards, that is a lot.
02-13-2009, 08:35 AM
#34
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Licking County, Ohio
Posts: 1,264
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
ORIGINAL: TEmbry
Good one!
You guys crack me up. No one told you to rush out and buy one. No one told you it would be needed in 99% of treestand situations. All we said was, IF you are buying new, why the hell would you NOT buy one with this...seeing as the prices are right in line with nonArc models? If you are buying a new car, and the dealer desides to throw in 5 years of XM radio for free, are you goin to say nahhh, thats over rated. I want one without it.[&:]
And excalibur, YES steep angles DO make more of a difference? I don't see what is so hard for people to understand about this. 40 yards ranged at a 45* angle, would give you a much shorter shot than a 40 yard ranged at a 10* angle....make sense?
ORIGINAL: fingerz42
TFOX,I see sort of what you're getting at, but you clearly have no phsyics background.
TFOX,I see sort of what you're getting at, but you clearly have no phsyics background.
Good one!
You guys crack me up. No one told you to rush out and buy one. No one told you it would be needed in 99% of treestand situations. All we said was, IF you are buying new, why the hell would you NOT buy one with this...seeing as the prices are right in line with nonArc models? If you are buying a new car, and the dealer desides to throw in 5 years of XM radio for free, are you goin to say nahhh, thats over rated. I want one without it.[&:]
And excalibur, YES steep angles DO make more of a difference? I don't see what is so hard for people to understand about this. 40 yards ranged at a 45* angle, would give you a much shorter shot than a 40 yard ranged at a 10* angle....make sense?
02-13-2009, 09:46 AM
#35
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 2,531
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
ORIGINAL: TEmbry
Basically sums it up...buying new, it is actually kind of stupid to NOT get it...considering ARC models are basically the same costs as the non ARC models, all things equal. You never know when you might need it. I agree that MOST hunters don't need to buy a new one if they already have one, but if you are buying a first or replacing a broke one......it would be dumb to NOT do it.
So, if the OP is looking to pick up his first rangefinder, get one with ARC, no brainer.
If/When I head for steep country to bowhunt, I will have one in my pack. May trade mine up if I ever find a good deal on an ARC model, or just buy a new one and gift my current one to my dad next christmas.
Like Rob said, some terrain unless you are a math wiz, it is necessary unless you carry conversion charts. I am fairly confident enough in my math skills that i could get by without it, but second guessing yourself is the LAST thing you want at crunch time.
ORIGINAL: MeanV2
For the OP. Nope you don't need it, but if you are buying new then why not. It definitely won't hurt!
For the OP. Nope you don't need it, but if you are buying new then why not. It definitely won't hurt!
So, if the OP is looking to pick up his first rangefinder, get one with ARC, no brainer.
If/When I head for steep country to bowhunt, I will have one in my pack. May trade mine up if I ever find a good deal on an ARC model, or just buy a new one and gift my current one to my dad next christmas.
Like Rob said, some terrain unless you are a math wiz, it is necessary unless you carry conversion charts. I am fairly confident enough in my math skills that i could get by without it, but second guessing yourself is the LAST thing you want at crunch time.
02-13-2009, 09:54 AM
#36
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kodiak, AK
Posts: 2,877
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
ORIGINAL: excalibur43
LOL, I have made this shot countless times from my target stand ( Platform in my tree) in my backyard. I can shoot it from my stand, come down to the ground and shoot it again with the same pin, with the same results.I do understand what you are saying, but from what I have found out by practicing from different heights, is that, I could not encounter an angle steep enough to make a real difference. I'm not saying that that doesn't happen in some hunting situations, but here in Ohio, I usually hunt from about 18-22 feet in my stand, and the " Arc" just doesn't come into play in this situation.
LOL, I have made this shot countless times from my target stand ( Platform in my tree) in my backyard. I can shoot it from my stand, come down to the ground and shoot it again with the same pin, with the same results.I do understand what you are saying, but from what I have found out by practicing from different heights, is that, I could not encounter an angle steep enough to make a real difference. I'm not saying that that doesn't happen in some hunting situations, but here in Ohio, I usually hunt from about 18-22 feet in my stand, and the " Arc" just doesn't come into play in this situation.
02-13-2009, 10:04 AM
#37
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Licking County, Ohio
Posts: 1,264
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
ORIGINAL: KodiakArcher
That's because 18-22 feet only equals 6-7 yards, when taken relative to the 20-40 yard shot (hypotenuse) that's nothing (meaning that your shot angle "theta" is minimal). The shot angle doesn't become substantial until the critter is in under you but then the distance is so close that it again, just doesn't matter. You can't get enough yards up into a tree to make a difference and still hunt safely. That's why ARC won't ever be of any practical use to a treestand hunter, even though the advertising would like to convince you otherwise.
ORIGINAL: excalibur43
LOL, I have made this shot countless times from my target stand ( Platform in my tree) in my backyard. I can shoot it from my stand, come down to the ground and shoot it again with the same pin, with the same results.I do understand what you are saying, but from what I have found out by practicing from different heights, is that, I could not encounter an angle steep enough to make a real difference. I'm not saying that that doesn't happen in some hunting situations, but here in Ohio, I usually hunt from about 18-22 feet in my stand, and the " Arc" just doesn't come into play in this situation.
LOL, I have made this shot countless times from my target stand ( Platform in my tree) in my backyard. I can shoot it from my stand, come down to the ground and shoot it again with the same pin, with the same results.I do understand what you are saying, but from what I have found out by practicing from different heights, is that, I could not encounter an angle steep enough to make a real difference. I'm not saying that that doesn't happen in some hunting situations, but here in Ohio, I usually hunt from about 18-22 feet in my stand, and the " Arc" just doesn't come into play in this situation.
02-13-2009, 01:13 PM
#38
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
ORIGINAL: fingerz42
TFOX,I see sort of what you're getting at, but you clearly have no phsyics background. Shooting uphill, or downhill are the exact same if given the same angle. Shooting 10 degrees uphill, will be the same as shooting 10 degrees downhill. Theres no difference in where you would aim. Weird huh? And for your application of being 20 foot up a tree, and shooting another 30 downhill, thats all fine and dandy, but I'm still shooting with my 20 yard pin. And then I'm going to stop hunting off cliffs.
TFOX,I see sort of what you're getting at, but you clearly have no phsyics background. Shooting uphill, or downhill are the exact same if given the same angle. Shooting 10 degrees uphill, will be the same as shooting 10 degrees downhill. Theres no difference in where you would aim. Weird huh? And for your application of being 20 foot up a tree, and shooting another 30 downhill, thats all fine and dandy, but I'm still shooting with my 20 yard pin. And then I'm going to stop hunting off cliffs.
I am well awair of how an arrow drops,up or downhill.The reason I said to try it shooting uphill is because it is IMPOSSIBLE to range a tree straighht out if shooting uphill.In this situation,you would need countless hours of practice with this type of shot to make it OR,one of these rangefinders.
BUT,there is a difference in where you AIM when shooting uphill verses downhill,you just shoot them both for the same yardage.Wierd HUH
OH,and sight paralax does make an uphill shot slightly different than a downhill shot,as does gravity when you get into greater distances but neither will be encountered in a hunting situation.[:-]
02-13-2009, 01:17 PM
#39
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
ORIGINAL: excalibur43
No, steep angles makes no difference either. I have never had any problem at any angle inside of 35-40 yards just shooting the yardage that my regular range finder states. Bows now-a-days are fast enough inside of 35 yards that there isn't much drop, if any at that yardage.
ORIGINAL: TFOX
The difference is greater at steep angles.Steep angles are usually encountered at closer yardages.(under 50 yards)
ORIGINAL: excalibur43
I could go along with that if I were shooting beyond 50 yards, but I usually shoot 35 yards or less at deer. When practicing, I just use my regular range finder and it puts me in the bullseye everytime.
ORIGINAL: KodiakArcher
What the rangefinder is giving you in your example is the hypotenuse so your knowns are (A) and (C). What you want to know is the base (B) which is the distance that gravity is working on your arrow. That distance will always be less than the hypotenuse (straight line distance) whether you're shooting up or down.
ORIGINAL: excalibur43
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that every drawingthat I have seen that explains the " ARC" is a hunter in a tree stand, down to the tree base, and out to the target. If I'm not mistaken, that creates a " Right Triangle". I may be mistaken, as it has been alot of years since I have taken Geometry, but wouldn't the distance from the hunter in the stand to the target represent the " Hypotenuse" ( ? ), of the Right Triangle, which is found by adding the distance from the hunter to the base of the tree, to the distance from the base of the tree to the target? If so, then the distance should be longer, not shorter. I think it's the Pythagorean Theorum ( ? )- A2 + B2= C2 ?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that every drawingthat I have seen that explains the " ARC" is a hunter in a tree stand, down to the tree base, and out to the target. If I'm not mistaken, that creates a " Right Triangle". I may be mistaken, as it has been alot of years since I have taken Geometry, but wouldn't the distance from the hunter in the stand to the target represent the " Hypotenuse" ( ? ), of the Right Triangle, which is found by adding the distance from the hunter to the base of the tree, to the distance from the base of the tree to the target? If so, then the distance should be longer, not shorter. I think it's the Pythagorean Theorum ( ? )- A2 + B2= C2 ?
The difference is greater at steep angles.Steep angles are usually encountered at closer yardages.
(under 50 yards)
A steep angle down a hill makes more of a difference than a lesser angle will,plain and simple.The further from the base of the tree you go,the lesser the angle and the closer the shot is to being shot as the same distance.This comes into play when sitting in a stand AND shooting downhill.As in my example earlier,when sitting 20' high and shooting down a hill another 30'.
02-13-2009, 01:22 PM
#40
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
ORIGINAL: TEmbry
Good one!
You guys crack me up. No one told you to rush out and buy one. No one told you it would be needed in 99% of treestand situations. All we said was, IF you are buying new, why the hell would you NOT buy one with this...seeing as the prices are right in line with nonArc models? If you are buying a new car, and the dealer desides to throw in 5 years of XM radio for free, are you goin to say nahhh, thats over rated. I want one without it.[&:]
And excalibur, YES steep angles DO make more of a difference? I don't see what is so hard for people to understand about this. 40 yards ranged at a 45* angle, would give you a much shorter shot than a 40 yard ranged at a 10* angle....make sense?
ORIGINAL: fingerz42
TFOX,I see sort of what you're getting at, but you clearly have no phsyics background.
TFOX,I see sort of what you're getting at, but you clearly have no phsyics background.
Good one!
You guys crack me up. No one told you to rush out and buy one. No one told you it would be needed in 99% of treestand situations. All we said was, IF you are buying new, why the hell would you NOT buy one with this...seeing as the prices are right in line with nonArc models? If you are buying a new car, and the dealer desides to throw in 5 years of XM radio for free, are you goin to say nahhh, thats over rated. I want one without it.[&:]
And excalibur, YES steep angles DO make more of a difference? I don't see what is so hard for people to understand about this. 40 yards ranged at a 45* angle, would give you a much shorter shot than a 40 yard ranged at a 10* angle....make sense?
What IS obvious is some have not read many of my post in the past.[8D]
Isn't that right trevor.