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-   Bowhunting (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/bowhunting-18/)
-   -   Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.??? (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/bowhunting/285974-rangefinders-w-arc-etc.html)

KodiakArcher 02-12-2009 08:38 AM
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
 
ORIGINAL: excalibur43

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that every drawingthat I have seen that explains the " ARC" is a hunter in a tree stand, down to the tree base, and out to the target. If I'm not mistaken, that creates a " Right Triangle". I may be mistaken, as it has been alot of years since I have taken Geometry, but wouldn't the distance from the hunter in the stand to the target represent the " Hypotenuse" ( ? ), of the Right Triangle, which is found by adding the distance from the hunter to the base of the tree, to the distance from the base of the tree to the target? If so, then the distance should be longer, not shorter. I think it's the Pythagorean Theorum ( ? )- A2 + B2= C2 ?

What the rangefinder is giving you in your example is the hypotenuse so your knowns are (A) and (C). What you want to know is the base (B) which is the distance that gravity is working on your arrow. That distance will always be less than the hypotenuse (straight line distance) whether you're shooting up or down.

fingerz42 02-12-2009 08:39 AM
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
 
We've been asked this exact question numerous times, and without throwing all the physics and ballistic numbers at you the answer for bowhunting applications is NO. You don't need to buy a rangefinder with ARC. This is a marketing gymmic and dont be fooled. If you want the "true" distance, range a tree at the same height as you, but at the horizontal distance of your target. Problems solved, now you have the "true" distance and you saved $100.

BlackFive782 02-12-2009 08:42 AM
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
 
Not for bowhunting, unless you're shooting down a cliff !

I hunt between 20-35' high. When I range the bse of a tree from my stand, then range level across- the difference is generally a half yard(even at 40yards). Not really a big deal.

A deer standing at 35yards, I will aim at dead on with my 30yard pin(not counting "drop" compensation).

For solid projectile, firearms hunting- it is a valuable tool for those hunters that may encounter along range shot andare unableprocess the ballistic formula in their minds.

I mostly bowhunt, but do head out with a firearm for some spot and stalk. My rangefinder does not have ARC, but I also understand the ballistics of MY weapon, so it's not needed.

Like said before- if you're buying a new rangefinder and it wont break the bank to purchase a unit with ARC, then just do it. It sure isnt going to hurt.

excalibur43 02-12-2009 09:31 AM
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
 
ORIGINAL: KodiakArcher

ORIGINAL: excalibur43

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that every drawingthat I have seen that explains the " ARC" is a hunter in a tree stand, down to the tree base, and out to the target. If I'm not mistaken, that creates a " Right Triangle". I may be mistaken, as it has been alot of years since I have taken Geometry, but wouldn't the distance from the hunter in the stand to the target represent the " Hypotenuse" ( ? ), of the Right Triangle, which is found by adding the distance from the hunter to the base of the tree, to the distance from the base of the tree to the target? If so, then the distance should be longer, not shorter. I think it's the Pythagorean Theorum ( ? )- A2 + B2= C2 ?

What the rangefinder is giving you in your example is the hypotenuse so your knowns are (A) and (C). What you want to know is the base (B) which is the distance that gravity is working on your arrow. That distance will always be less than the hypotenuse (straight line distance) whether you're shooting up or down.
I could go along with that if I were shooting beyond 50 yards, but I usually shoot 35 yards or less at deer. When practicing, I just use my regular range finder and it puts me in the bullseye everytime.

TFOX 02-12-2009 02:37 PM
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
 
ORIGINAL: fingerz42

We've been asked this exact question numerous times, and without throwing all the physics and ballistic numbers at you the answer for bowhunting applications is NO. You don't need to buy a rangefinder with ARC. This is a marketing gymmic and dont be fooled. If you want the "true" distance, range a tree at the same height as you, but at the horizontal distance of your target. Problems solved, now you have the "true" distance and you saved $100.

See how that works for you shooting uphill.:D Or from a deerstand 20 feet up but shooting down the side a hill that is another 30 foot drop and the deer is only 20 yards from the base of the tree.


As has been stated,most of the time for most hunters,it will rarely be something you "need" but there are times when having it would be extremely helpfull.Plus,if buying a new rangefinder,the price is on par with those without the arc system so it would be worth getting.

TFOX 02-12-2009 02:40 PM
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
 

ORIGINAL: excalibur43

ORIGINAL: KodiakArcher

ORIGINAL: excalibur43

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that every drawing that I have seen that explains the " ARC" is a hunter in a tree stand, down to the tree base, and out to the target. If I'm not mistaken, that creates a " Right Triangle". I may be mistaken, as it has been alot of years since I have taken Geometry, but wouldn't the distance from the hunter in the stand to the target represent the " Hypotenuse" ( ? ), of the Right Triangle, which is found by adding the distance from the hunter to the base of the tree, to the distance from the base of the tree to the target? If so, then the distance should be longer, not shorter. I think it's the Pythagorean Theorum ( ? )- A2 + B2 = C2 ?

What the rangefinder is giving you in your example is the hypotenuse so your knowns are (A) and (C). What you want to know is the base (B) which is the distance that gravity is working on your arrow. That distance will always be less than the hypotenuse (straight line distance) whether you're shooting up or down.
I could go along with that if I were shooting beyond 50 yards, but I usually shoot 35 yards or less at deer. When practicing, I just use my regular range finder and it puts me in the bullseye everytime.

The difference is greater at steep angles.Steep angles are usually encountered at closer yardages.;)(under 50 yards)

bowtech die hard 02-12-2009 04:10 PM
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
 
ORIGINAL: KodiakArcher

ORIGINAL: MeanV2

It takes some extreme situations before it is necessary. All it takes is a little math to figurethat out.

Dan
Mountain goat at 45 yards by your rangefinder at about what you figure to be a 55 degree down angle. What do you shoot him for? (Jeopardy music in background...) :D:D:DIs your angle estimate accurate? Do you carry cosines in your pocket? Point is that it's more than just a little math on top of a bunch of other stuff you've got to stop from going wrong. They are definitely worth their weight and expense in those extreme circumstances.
ps.) (COS 55)(45) = 26 Hard to trust it but if you do... Bam! dead goat.
absolutely agree. If you're anywhere in the midwest forget it, it's worthless.

fingerz42 02-12-2009 05:53 PM
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
 
TFOX,I see sort of what you're getting at, but you clearly have no phsyics background. Shooting uphill, or downhill are the exact same if given the same angle. Shooting 10 degrees uphill, will be the same as shooting 10 degrees downhill. Theres no difference in where you would aim. Weird huh? And for your application of being 20 foot up a tree, and shooting another 30 downhill, thats all fine and dandy, but I'm still shooting with my 20 yard pin. And then I'm going to stop hunting off cliffs. :D

Steven McBee 02-12-2009 06:02 PM
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
 
i've only seen (actually watched on tv:D) one situation where it was needed. I forgot what show it was but the guy was sneaking up on black bearin mountainsand the shot was around 100 yards, but he was up almost directly above the bear and the shot only ended up being "like" a 20 yard shot... he smoked the bear BTW

excalibur43 02-13-2009 02:15 AM
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
 
ORIGINAL: TFOX

ORIGINAL: excalibur43

ORIGINAL: KodiakArcher

ORIGINAL: excalibur43

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that every drawingthat I have seen that explains the " ARC" is a hunter in a tree stand, down to the tree base, and out to the target. If I'm not mistaken, that creates a " Right Triangle". I may be mistaken, as it has been alot of years since I have taken Geometry, but wouldn't the distance from the hunter in the stand to the target represent the " Hypotenuse" ( ? ), of the Right Triangle, which is found by adding the distance from the hunter to the base of the tree, to the distance from the base of the tree to the target? If so, then the distance should be longer, not shorter. I think it's the Pythagorean Theorum ( ? )- A2 + B2= C2 ?

What the rangefinder is giving you in your example is the hypotenuse so your knowns are (A) and (C). What you want to know is the base (B) which is the distance that gravity is working on your arrow. That distance will always be less than the hypotenuse (straight line distance) whether you're shooting up or down.
I could go along with that if I were shooting beyond 50 yards, but I usually shoot 35 yards or less at deer. When practicing, I just use my regular range finder and it puts me in the bullseye everytime.

The difference is greater at steep angles.Steep angles are usually encountered at closer yardages.;)(under 50 yards)
No, steep angles makes no difference either. I have never had any problem at any angle inside of 35-40 yards just shooting the yardage that my regular range finder states. Bows now-a-days are fast enough inside of 35 yards that there isn't much drop, if any at that yardage.


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