RE: Let Him Go So He Can Grow-Who Cares??
 

The problem is NorthJeff... that all the "QDM" places also incorporate your discription of Trophy Management as part of their plan. A deer can have a smaller rack and still be the biggest and baddest around. The best guy in a fight is not always the biggest. Your points about trophy hunting are exactly my point.... the QDM craze is being used to justify trophy management. States that have inacted their areas of "QDM" usually do it with point numbers and spread limitations. Horn growing..... that's nothing to do with health of the herd. As far as the high browse lines.... that's where numbers not particulars need to be taken out. Does ... does... and more does. QDM "Experts" will tell you when you're taking numbers it doesn't matter if its a button or a fawn or mature doe. If it's brown it should go down. Common sense tells you that a mature doe eliminates 2 fawns next year usually while a small one might eliminate 1 or none. I'm not saying QDM as it is used today is bad.... just that it's not health of the herd that they're worried about..... it's how big can I grow some horns. Buck deer do NOT pass on survival techniques to the herd. Only in a Disney movie. Survival is learned with a little luck and close calls and time. The only thing they pass on are genes just like you and I. My fathers blood didn't pass on the first thing to me about dating or surviving in the woods. It did contribute to my hair loss(my mother I know) and height.

RE: Let Him Go So He Can Grow-Who Cares??
 

My question to the to Q D M is if you let all the 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 bucks go and shoot the 8 pt. or better, especially in bow season, before rut, aren't these young deer doing most of the breeding?
I certainly agree with harvesting more does, the ratio in the U P is as bad as it was down state 30 years ago,but I would like to see more 3 to5 year bucks doing the breeding.
Yes I am a yooper, though I now winter in Texas, and I see a lot of very nice bucks down here.The way they manage here with a lot of ranches is to take young and old bucks, letting the nice 8 & 10 pt's do
the breeding. Probably wouldn't work in places like Mi. with our large public land areas anyway. But I can't agree with taking the best breeding bucks out of the herd, before rut, is G D M

RE: Let Him Go So He Can Grow-Who Cares??
 

Great Post NorthJeff and Davidmil. You both are right. I just think that the best way to go is by practicing QDM for a healthy herd and also practicing trophy QDM. At times they may conflict each other in the process, but that's how you'll get a good all-rounded deer herd for the hunter.
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RE: Let Him Go So He Can Grow-Who Cares??
 

The one thing I have noticed on a couple of the videos out of Texas was that in the early season the hunters were NOT allowed to shoot the "Trophy" bucks..... only the smaller ones. That would seem to serve both purposes. If they want to do it in places like MI, NY, PA, and Maryland they have to legislate it. That's the stumbling block.... too much opposition. The bandaid patches won't work. Besides that, some of these states are making too much money off the bonus tags. If they really wanted the herd down they would give you the tags required to do the job. I can shoot all the does I want if I keep putting up the money here in Maryland.

RE: Let Him Go So He Can Grow-Who Cares??
 

Well, we don't really practice QDM, but my family owns about 25 acres of woods. My friend and I are the only two people that normally hunt it. We normally try for a 7 point or better, maybe a HUGE six. This year we are planting a 3 acre food plot in my back yard. Hopefully this will help out the herd back there. Across the road is another patch of woods that he have permission to hunt. It gets VERY VERY little pressure. Back there, we try to pass up th small bucks. This year my friend was passing up everything because he wanted a certain buck in there, the Ghost buck, it is a 10 point with a 20 inch spread, probablly goes in the 130-140 class. That property has HUGE bucks on it. It is surrounded by a huge farm and another farm that is POSTED to EVERYONE. Everyone overlooks that area. They could get permission but nobody does. We will go out the first week of archery for does and look for bucks, then we will hunt that buck. We have seen a 120 class 8 point, two 130-140 class 10 points, and a 170-180 class 17 point in there. There is a small 7 point that probablly goes around 100 inch that my friend passed up this year and a spike that had probablly 9 or 10 inche spikes. We just let them grow because nobody else hunts it.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

RE: Let Him Go So He Can Grow-Who Cares??
 

Hunters like deer go thru a growing stage. When we 1st start, it is "THE KILL". Next, it is the ability to get close enough for the Kill, but it is "YOUR" choice as to weather you take the shot or not(let walk or not). Then, after a time, you just want to outsmart the BIG ONES & shoot a doe cause you like the venison. Then in camp at home or in the sport shop you say-I had this one at-----feet but let him live. You have come full circle just as that mature buck your trin to bag has done. Everyone has paid his dues & the DNR is still trying to be politically correct...


always thankful

RE: Let Him Go So He Can Grow-Who Cares??
 

I would like to see people around my area let smaller bucks go. There is plenty of deer here. I do a lot of hunting on public land and if its brown its down there. I have let game walk just to hear a shot just minutes later and I about fall out of my stand it is so close. I eat them all, so I don't really care what size they are for food, but I definately would rather kill a big buck than a doe. On my land and my family's land we try not to shoot the smaller bucks. Since I got my deer-cam I really don't care about shooting any of them, I got want to get pictures of them right now.

RE: Let Him Go So He Can Grow-Who Cares??
 

Jeff,

Where are you from in the U.P.???? Here on the western end of the U.P. It is HARD to pass on that nice fork horn that comes strutting by. I do it....but I don't like it. 3 years ago, we had 4 spikes, 3 forks and a small 6 comming in to our backyard every night. I hunted behind our house and saw them all the time, but never shot one. When rifle season started, they would only come in at night. At the end of rifle season, one spike remained. I am assuming the rest were killed (Heavy hunting preassure...just like everywhere else in the U.P.) I don't know what the answer is. Manditory deer registration?? 6-point or better...Period????
I just try to get away from people and roads and do my part to:

LET 'UM GO....LET 'UM GROW!

(Scouted out a NICE 9-point durring archery season and ended up killing him November 20th with the rifle! 3.5 year old) There out there......somewhere!

John

RE: Let Him Go So He Can Grow-Who Cares??
 

Stealthycat I guess the 3pt rule is having a totaly differant impact up here in the very NE corner. Im seeing as many if not more does and am already seeing the effect on the bucks only saw one less than leagal buck this year. But there again I think the overall situation between here and there is day and night, we only have 6 days of modern gun and that is shotgun only. I this rule is effecting your numbers that adversely I sure hate it........hill

RE: Let Him Go So He Can Grow-Who Cares??
 

abhunter: I'm not buying the come full circle theory either. I hunt for one purpose. Shooting something with my bow. I've been hunting alone for about 50 years. The last 31 have been bow hunting. Admittedly I'm not as anxious about a kill as I once was, but a lot of that has to do with game populations today. There is always tomorrow. 40 years ago seeing a deer was reason to celebrate. The person who got one was indeed held up as a "Real hunter". Seeing one was reason to call everyone you knew. But back to you "Full Circle" theory. If I want to tell about how close I got to this one or that one I can start leaving a bunch of stuff at home and travel light. I have always and will always hunt with the ultimate goal of winning the contest. It's not over until I start dragging or I miss. I don't need to follow some hypothetical mystic journey around the loop to become a hunter. When I finally decide enough is enough I'll stop hunting. Sure there is enjoyment involved that has nothing to do with the kill. Sure I like to see someone else get one. But I hunt to take.... not to have observed. That's bird watching.