Momentum vs KE ....who is switching over this year?
01-02-2009, 09:30 AM
#11
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 9,445
RE: Momentum vs KE ....who is switching over this year?
Been shooting heavy set ups for 23 years. I did when I shot compounds and still do now shooting my recurve. Pass throughs have never been an Issue for me and there's a reason for that- heavy arrow's.
01-02-2009, 09:40 AM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 2,531
RE: Momentum vs KE ....who is switching over this year?
ORIGINAL: PreacherTony
I think with all the posts this past season about lost deer........ I wonder if penetration was improved with any of them .... wouldmore have been recovered??? I suppose I sholuld have used better penetration instead of complete pass-thru ......
Hard quartering away shots ..... spine shots ... some marginal shots ... all would be helped with better penetration ...
ORIGINAL: Planter
It was not that long ago I was shooting a very light arrow with an overdraw on the bow. I'm a short range shooter so I am going heavier. I am not sure why I'm changing because pass thrus are the norm even with the light arrow
It was not that long ago I was shooting a very light arrow with an overdraw on the bow. I'm a short range shooter so I am going heavier. I am not sure why I'm changing because pass thrus are the norm even with the light arrow
Hard quartering away shots ..... spine shots ... some marginal shots ... all would be helped with better penetration ...
There's a point whre both KE and Momentum are almost optimal for most set-ups, for my set-up it's around 480grs. I'm happy with what I'm using now, 440gr arrow and BH combo, hit's hard and passes through. I think if you could draw a curve on set-ups and predict where the KE peaks, that would be optimal for most of us guys shooting 70+ # bows, but with the likes of Christine and other low poundage set-ups, I agree that momentum is much more important.
I also think that shot selection is the MOST important factor when it comes to non-pass throughs, unless someone is just using a totally incapable set-up.
01-02-2009, 10:10 AM
#13
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location:
Posts: 7,367
RE: Momentum vs KE ....who is switching over this year?
I have differentsets of hunting arrows that weigh from 330 grains all the way to a little over 500 grains.
To use only one weight arrow for all the different conditions and animals I hunt would be pretty close minded.
I don't remember the last time I failed to get a passthrough.
Dan
To use only one weight arrow for all the different conditions and animals I hunt would be pretty close minded.
I don't remember the last time I failed to get a passthrough.
Dan
01-02-2009, 10:58 AM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Henderson, KY
Posts: 1,760
RE: Momentum vs KE ....who is switching over this year?
ORIGINAL: TEmbry
My arrow weighs in right at 500 grains give or take. It thumps the target compared to older lighter arrows, quieter on the shot, neglible difference in speed.
I didnt have to choose between the two though. With my calculated speed (shop chrono down still), my bow is cranking 80-81 foot lbs of KE, and momentum is up there as well having the heavier arrow.
Ill say this much, I am down to 9 FMJs....when that number reaches 6, Ill order another dozen. I see absolutely no reason what so ever to change arrows...at all. I LOVE this arrow, and don't think it can be beat for a hunting arrow.
My arrow weighs in right at 500 grains give or take. It thumps the target compared to older lighter arrows, quieter on the shot, neglible difference in speed.
I didnt have to choose between the two though. With my calculated speed (shop chrono down still), my bow is cranking 80-81 foot lbs of KE, and momentum is up there as well having the heavier arrow.
Ill say this much, I am down to 9 FMJs....when that number reaches 6, Ill order another dozen. I see absolutely no reason what so ever to change arrows...at all. I LOVE this arrow, and don't think it can be beat for a hunting arrow.
Derek
01-02-2009, 11:06 AM
#16
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kodiak, AK
Posts: 2,877
RE: Momentum vs KE ....who is switching over this year?
New bow = new arrows; Easton Axis 300 w/ 100 grain insert and 125 grain head for a total of 560 grains at 69# draw.
The old bow was already shooting a 500 grain arrow at 265 fps so it's not changing.
The old bow was already shooting a 500 grain arrow at 265 fps so it's not changing.
01-02-2009, 11:48 AM
#17
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 393
RE: Momentum vs KE ....who is switching over this year?
How much momentum does it take to get a pass thtrough on a broadside deer @ 20 yards? I know what's worked for me.
Do people really know how much momentum they produce with their set-up? Most likely not.
In the Sept. 2008 Bowhunt America they tested the 3 Rivers DALAA @ 55 LB draw weight. It shot a 478 grain shaft @ 187 fps = 37.2 LB of KE / .40 momentum.
I can shoot a 385 grain shaft @ 283 fps from my 53# bow which is 68.4 LB of KE / .48 momentum
Yes, I'm comparing a trad bow to a high performance compound, but it's a real (valid) example of how a light arrow may carry as much momentum as a heavy one, from different bows.
From the same bow a heavier arrow will carry more momentum than a lighter one.
I have not had trouble getting pass throughs with arrows weighing 315-385 grains (Got a pass through 19/22 times, when I did not it wasn't an arrow weight issue) so I will keep on using them.
Do people really know how much momentum they produce with their set-up? Most likely not.
In the Sept. 2008 Bowhunt America they tested the 3 Rivers DALAA @ 55 LB draw weight. It shot a 478 grain shaft @ 187 fps = 37.2 LB of KE / .40 momentum.
I can shoot a 385 grain shaft @ 283 fps from my 53# bow which is 68.4 LB of KE / .48 momentum
Yes, I'm comparing a trad bow to a high performance compound, but it's a real (valid) example of how a light arrow may carry as much momentum as a heavy one, from different bows.
From the same bow a heavier arrow will carry more momentum than a lighter one.
I have not had trouble getting pass throughs with arrows weighing 315-385 grains (Got a pass through 19/22 times, when I did not it wasn't an arrow weight issue) so I will keep on using them.
01-02-2009, 11:49 AM
#18
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: Momentum vs KE ....who is switching over this year?
Here's my opinoin on the whole KE, momentum, heavy arrow light arrow blah blah blah for deer hunting with high performance bows.
It's WAY overblown and overanalyzed.
The vast majority of adult compound set ups out there provide more than enough of everything needed to do the job everytime.
WhatNEEDS to happen is people need to start complimenting their particular set ups with the proper broadhead choicefor what their bow can do, practice shooting, and quit taking low percentage shots.
For traditional hunters where velocities are low, KE is low, and small percentage gains can make a difference I think the hairsplitting discussions are valid.......for modern compounds it's a whole lot about nothing.
IF your shooting a modern compound with adult draw lengths and weights with any at leastIBO legalarrow (5grs per lb of draw weight)and not getting complete penetration (offside leg on quartering away shots not included) thenthere are otherfactorsworking againstyou more worthy of looking at than a few grains in arrow weight.
But that's just me.
It's WAY overblown and overanalyzed.
The vast majority of adult compound set ups out there provide more than enough of everything needed to do the job everytime.
WhatNEEDS to happen is people need to start complimenting their particular set ups with the proper broadhead choicefor what their bow can do, practice shooting, and quit taking low percentage shots.
For traditional hunters where velocities are low, KE is low, and small percentage gains can make a difference I think the hairsplitting discussions are valid.......for modern compounds it's a whole lot about nothing.
IF your shooting a modern compound with adult draw lengths and weights with any at leastIBO legalarrow (5grs per lb of draw weight)and not getting complete penetration (offside leg on quartering away shots not included) thenthere are otherfactorsworking againstyou more worthy of looking at than a few grains in arrow weight.
But that's just me.
01-02-2009, 12:54 PM
#19
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location:
Posts: 7,367
RE: Momentum vs KE ....who is switching over this year?
ORIGINAL: drockw
How did youget a 500gr. FMJ???
Derek
ORIGINAL: TEmbry
My arrow weighs in right at 500 grains give or take. It thumps the target compared to older lighter arrows, quieter on the shot, neglible difference in speed.
I didnt have to choose between the two though. With my calculated speed (shop chrono down still), my bow is cranking 80-81 foot lbs of KE, and momentum is up there as well having the heavier arrow.
Ill say this much, I am down to 9 FMJs....when that number reaches 6, Ill order another dozen. I see absolutely no reason what so ever to change arrows...at all. I LOVE this arrow, and don't think it can be beat for a hunting arrow.
My arrow weighs in right at 500 grains give or take. It thumps the target compared to older lighter arrows, quieter on the shot, neglible difference in speed.
I didnt have to choose between the two though. With my calculated speed (shop chrono down still), my bow is cranking 80-81 foot lbs of KE, and momentum is up there as well having the heavier arrow.
Ill say this much, I am down to 9 FMJs....when that number reaches 6, Ill order another dozen. I see absolutely no reason what so ever to change arrows...at all. I LOVE this arrow, and don't think it can be beat for a hunting arrow.
Derek
I also agree with Matt! The whole thing is over blown when it comes to adult compounds. I may use an arrow that has more KE/Momentum when I'm hunting thick cover and/or expecting close shots.
No way I'll give up the flatter trajectory my light arrows offer me when I'm hunting open country game and know a 50 yard shot is possible. I know my setup will blow through Anyway.
Dan