GregH

Post your pics, I'd like to see them.

Talondale

I haven't read the rest of thethread yet, so this may be redundant but..... Keep in mind in some populations all 1.5 year old bucks may not be the same age. If you havea high doe to buck ratio not all does get bred the first, or second cycle and some maybe not a third (depending on how temperate a zone you live in). So you have deer being born way late into fawning season, or even after. We've seen posts on here of people seeing fawns with spots into bow season and that's because of late dropping does. So you have this buck born late in the season, and he may have all the superior genes you seek but since he's getting such a late start he's at a disadvantage. He missed greenup when all the plants are most nutritious. He doesn't have as much time to grow and put on weight before the winter hardness comes. It may take him 2-3 years to recover from that late start. So a year later he's a spike, but he's last years crop and obviously inferior so you take him out. Ooops there goes that gene you were looking for. What GMMAT and others are saying is that your evidence is anectdotal and your methods may not support your conclusions. What most people who study deer and create cause and effect studies say is that the number one factor in developing a big deer is AGE followed by NUTRITION. Most will say that the LAST thing to address is genetics. It's also hard to determine, on the hoof, if the poor antler development you're seeing is a result of genetics or environment. Just by restricting what you shoot you are allowing more bucks to get older and that is what is causing the results you are seeing.


Agree 100%. Check out your herd size and area's carrying capacity. Studies have shown that high stress from overpopulation will stunt antler growth.

Vito1

[/quote]
Just like people whodon't believe what a doctor tells them. I mean, what do doctors and biologist know anyways? Everyone knows they just make stuff up.[8D]

CodyGuess

Just like people whodon't believe what a doctor tells them. I mean, what do doctors and biologist know anyways? Everyone knows they just make stuff up.[8D]
[/quote]

if ur talkin about me i rly dont care.. i know wats working on my farm an it working so plan on doin it.. hek were all whitetail hunters an everybody has there own opinion so y does it matter wat im doing when most of u dont even live here in kentucky.. maybe its working better here than somewere else so y the hell does it matter

teedub31

Hey I'm a glad that you are getting 150 class deer. But lets be real here. Your 600 acre farm is only one square mile. You are completely dillusional if you think you can influnece deer growth and behavioral patterns within a square mile. Heck, I don't think foodplots and such will have much effect ongrowing bigger deer in your square mile. You don't have enough ground to inflence anything. Now if you have 5000+ acres to hunt I might buy into it some. A deer herdsrange is way too big for your GodLike culling powers to have any noticable effect. YOur success are attributed to something else (and most likely out of your control).

CodyGuess

well then lets figure out what the success is if its something else bc id sure like to know

TreednNC

And on 5000ac Id venture it would take harvesting atleast15-20 'inferior' bucks a year to make a true dent in genetics....coupled with those 20 being old enough to show their true potential......how many hunters would it take to harvest 15-20 bucks....let alone 15-20 old enough to show their potential.......PLUS the ones that have shown their potential that you dont pass up because theyre great bucks.......that's a lot of culling and killing

gri22ly

If it's working, it's working Cody. Keep it up!!

I would saythe successon your farm isis dew to the fact that a certain%age of bucks are allowed tomature and hasvery littleto do with genetics.

TreednNC

x2 plus wisdom gained over those years on hunting them

tschammel

This argument is getting a little redundant. But some of you are adding things into that argument that we didn't nessesarily say. We don't kill every 1.5 old that is a spike or every 2.5 year old with a small rack. We trophie hunt all year, take a good doe and a buck that we think will not amount to much or that is already older that is sporting a week rack. Like I said before, if a buck like what was originally posted a 3.5 old with nothing to show and I don't think he has good genes we will take him if we can since the 3.5 and up bucks do most of the breeding in our area. Deer in our area don't travel far, they winter in our area, we see the bucks all year around. We also keep track of bucks and see them the following years and we happen to see racks that are trendy in the area like GregH mentioned. We have had some racks from bucks that are 10s and have abnormal tine length even when the deer matures to 5.5 years old. I believe if we could have taken this ten with short tines when he was 3.5 there would be less of his genes around that we are seeing in deer. We also have genes of deer that have split g2's and split brows that grow to be very big within 3.5 years old. We find our area is very controlled genetically because of the racks that we see. I've hunted in big woods areas where the area is not controlled at all and you don't see that same deer twice sometimes. That is the oposite of our area. If you don't think this would work in your area then why disagree if we are seeing it work in our hunting area? Like I said, sudies are done, but they do not relate to every area.Is the study done withthe same type ofdeer herd or ratio of bucks to does?

For the doctor analogy, don't be rediculous. I've had two doctors look at my back andmy xray and tell me my back was fine and I needed physical therapy because it was muscles. Well I got a second opinion, wella docotors that apparently new whathe was doing found a larg crack in my 4th lumbar joint in about 1 min. Goes to show if I was like some you guys and though ever doctor was god I would have suffered alot more without a second opinion.So lets justkeep the analogies out of it. I just don't believe everything I read and I know I don't know everything about my proffession and I will never claim to.

Im telling you this has worked in our area, and I believe it has in others as well. It might not in your area, Im sorry.....k. Like GregH said he has a trend of larg 7 points in his area. If he would have tried to take out a couple of those 3.5 year old 7's when he started to notice them, he would have had other mature deer breeding those does.