GMMAT

Please correct me if I'm wrong....but MOST of the times I see what you describe.....they're taking out a deer that's reached his prime antler growing age (or better)....and it's obvious he isn't going to produce the type rack they see as their "trophy" stock. We're talking bucks in the 5.5yr old range.

That's a BIG strectch from taking out 1.5 and 2.5yr old bucks you "feel" are "going to be" inferior.....before they've had a chane to reach their full antler potential.

tschammel

Gmmat,

Yes, but if your taking 1.5 or 2.5 year old deer with screwed up racks out of your heard, how can that not help. Granted some may think this is a little young to be doing this.The first deer pick that he showed is a 3.5 year old that doens't look like he's evergoing to amount to 135 140 in the next couple of years. He got no brows, nomass and he's only an eight. Ifthey don't want thosegenes on there farm thats there choice, and if there arebigger deer that they want to do the breeding then how can that not help there heard.

GMMAT

Last issue fo the QDMA program I watched....they discussed this at length. If you could have seen the progression of the spikes.......through 5.5yrs.....you might have a different view on this.

BEST determination in how much potential a bick has (in regards to antler growth) is age structure. If you never allow him to reach that age.....you'll never know.

crenshaw

Also, sometimes deer experience a small injury during the antler growth process altering the growth of there antlers that year, making them appear weird. The next year they dont experience this at all. You would be shooting a deer with the same perfect genetics that you want.

tschammel

I just watched the spike episode as well. I also understand that a buck can have an injury and have a screwed up rack and not the next year. BUT. I would rather cull out (Some) of these deer that Im judging and that I don't think are going to be big. For the fact that I think they will have to become 6 or 7 years old or even higher to become big enough to shoot. I want my 3.5 4.5 year old deer that are already big enough to do the breeding in my area. If there are lessbucks aroundthat have the genes that take a while to havebigracks that means the 3.5's and 4.5's with racks already big are going to breed most of the does. Thats changingyour heard and allowing better genetics and faster growing antler bucks to be roaming your area.

Im not disputing the fact that a spikecan bebig or that ascrewed up rack and be normal again. Im justtrying to judge what I think is a better genetic faster growing antlered deer. I wantdeerthat are young that already have big racks breeding the does in my area. Idon't want a bunch of deer that take 6 or 7 years or more to become a shooter. I wantto try to develope a couple of 4.5 or 5.5 year old monsters or150pluses.

txjourneyman

Wow, only an 8. I can't begin to express my loathing for that term.

Doubled 150

That deer in the first picture, the one with"badgenetics",is a 6 pointer and I'm pretty sure he's 4.5 years old. This picture was taken in December this year. He looks like a lean 3.5 year old because he's run down from the rut.

Someone said "they don't believe in the once a spike always a spike". I don'tbelieve that's the case. I do think that a 1.5 year old basket 6 or 8 point has more potential than a spike. At 2.5, I think you can get a pretty good idea of what that buck's antler potential is.

I'm not disputing the fact that age doesn't play a big role in antler development. It does. So does nutrition, stress, injury and I'm sure a lot of other things. But...Genetics play a HUGE roll in a buck's antler potential. There area few peoplewho raise deer around here. One had a160" 1.5 year old. I understand they're not wild, free ranging deer, but that's all genetics. Genetics make a difference in the wild as well.

GMMAT

Well....at least you're honest.

You've heard what the wildlife biologists have said......so I guess make yourown decisions.

GregH

I've seen good and bad bucks in the herds that I hunt. I have a crop of bucks that are 7 pointers, from 1.5 years through 4.5 years. I'm not sure what to think but at 4.5 still being a 7 pointer? If it were my land I think I might take him (them) out. I didn't start thinking this way until 2 years ago, when I saw the big 7 breeding. I guess I'm still undecided.

GMMAT

What woud that 7 score, Greg?

I mean.....we have "good areas".....and we have "freak of nature" areas.