Good and Bad genetics
12-16-2008, 06:39 AM
#11
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: May 2005
Location: One mile east of West Podunk Tx
Posts: 5,973
RE: Good and Bad genetics
If you are that concerned with genetics why not just put up a high fence, kill everything inside it, and then introduce the "perfect" genetics you desire. That way you won't have to ever worry about seeing an "inferior" buck in your woods. I'm just sayin'. [8D]
12-16-2008, 06:57 AM
#13
Typical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 751
RE: Good and Bad genetics
ORIGINAL: Doubled 150
Of course.
ORIGINAL: TreednNC
You do realize it takes two to tango, and the does are possibly carrying some of these 'genes' and theres no way to know which ones.
You do realize it takes two to tango, and the does are possibly carrying some of these 'genes' and theres no way to know which ones.
12-16-2008, 07:00 AM
#14
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: MO
Posts: 643
RE: Good and Bad genetics
ORIGINAL: txjourneyman
If you are that concerned with genetics why not just put up a high fence, kill everything inside it, and then introduce the "perfect" genetics you desire. That way you won't have to ever worry about seeing an "inferior" buck in your woods. I'm just sayin'.
If you are that concerned with genetics why not just put up a high fence, kill everything inside it, and then introduce the "perfect" genetics you desire. That way you won't have to ever worry about seeing an "inferior" buck in your woods. I'm just sayin'.
12-16-2008, 07:08 AM
#15
Typical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NOVA
Posts: 780
RE: Good and Bad genetics
All i can say if is if you actually think you can alter the genetics of deer in the wild, its not going happen. Sure you might take some out that have 'bad" genes, but others from other areas with there bad genetics will come in.
During the rut its a know fact that 3.5 buck can travel up to 20 miles through out the stages of the rut. So for you to clean out bad genetics you would have to have massive stretch of land, and a lot of time and tags. Not to mention the two to tango argument too. You would have to high fence the deer, tag the does that produce good bucks and kill the ones that dont, and even then that would take years, due to the fact that hidden genes can be exposed due to stress and other things.
Also, some deer have great genetics but suffer an injury thus altering there antler growth, which doesnt mean that the genetics they are spreading are bad, they just have injuries. This has been proven over the last few years. It frustrates me when people are still of the thought process that once a spike always a spike, its just not true at all.
During the rut its a know fact that 3.5 buck can travel up to 20 miles through out the stages of the rut. So for you to clean out bad genetics you would have to have massive stretch of land, and a lot of time and tags. Not to mention the two to tango argument too. You would have to high fence the deer, tag the does that produce good bucks and kill the ones that dont, and even then that would take years, due to the fact that hidden genes can be exposed due to stress and other things.
Also, some deer have great genetics but suffer an injury thus altering there antler growth, which doesnt mean that the genetics they are spreading are bad, they just have injuries. This has been proven over the last few years. It frustrates me when people are still of the thought process that once a spike always a spike, its just not true at all.
12-16-2008, 07:10 AM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,927
RE: Good and Bad genetics
This is a delicate area because it's easy to step on toes but IMO your priorities are out of wack. Just how "perfect" do the racks need to be? I don't see anything wrong with the rack on the buck you posted, except maybe his inside spread isn't wide. It seems the left antler slants in (a classic diamond shape) where the right is more upright. If that is the case and it is the "flaw" that you want to eliminate than I humbly submit you're hunting for the wrong reasons and should think of "culling" the wrong motives in your life. It does seem you seek a designer buck and the best option is a high fence and stud fees. If I'm wrong ignore this post.
Now I can understand the case where the buck has only one antler but as mentioned the doe could be carrying the gene as well and there's no way of telling which doe has what genes.
Probably the main impact is more bucks are reaching older ages.
Doctor Kroll's book points out that antlers change year to year and it's hard to determine what a mature bucks antlers will look like. http://www.texashuntfish.com/app/view/Post/12775/Antler-Development-in-Free-Range-Bucks-by-Dr-Kroll
Now I can understand the case where the buck has only one antler but as mentioned the doe could be carrying the gene as well and there's no way of telling which doe has what genes.
Including the neighbors, there are around 500+ acres that participated in our "program". I saw the results. Coincidence? Maybe, but I doubt it.
Many abnormalities we see in the field are temporary in nature. An abnormal antler(s) should not be an excuse to harvest a young buck, particularly if the abnormality is injury related. If given the chance to grow another set of antlers, most bucks revert to their pre-injured form and grow a larger set in response to their advanced age. I know of one 3 ½ year old buck that injured his antlers early in growth and ended with 6 points on 2 deformed antlers. He scored far less than 100 Boone & Crockett points (probably closer to 50 B&C). The next year he was a symmetrical 10 point with a 21 inch inside spread and scored 145 B&C. It's amazing the difference a year can make. http://www.whitetailstewards.com/articlesonsite/deerbiology/antlerabnormalities.htm
12-16-2008, 07:29 AM
#17
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: Good and Bad genetics
You do realize it takes two to tango, and the does are possibly carrying some of these 'genes' and theres no way to know which ones.
How can you be sure the "superior" bucks are breeding with the "superior" does? You can't.
12-16-2008, 07:31 AM
#19
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: May 2006
Location: MA
Posts: 1,653
RE: Good and Bad genetics
How could you ever know how many lines of bucks you have. Couldn't another buck with another genetic backgroundslipped in at some point? 
I would just think it was inevitable as well as short term before lines mingled..
I would just think it was inevitable as well as short term before lines mingled..
12-16-2008, 08:11 AM
#20
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 316
RE: Good and Bad genetics
Doubled 150,
I think your doing the right thing. Alot of ranches and outfitters do the same thing. They let clients or themselves trophy hunt deer and at the end of the year or at the end of the hunt for clients let them take cull buck or bucks with bad genes out of the heard. It allows you to get some meat in the freezer and there is no doubt that you are giving yourself a better chance of having better deer around if you are doing this year after year. Bucks can travel 20 miles away during the rut, but will they if they don't have to NO! If there are does around they will not leave and if there are less bucks to bread them they expecially will not leave. Most of thetrophies in our area that we have taken, we have watched them for a couple of years, that means that they are breeding does in the area for a couple of years and spreading there genes.Depending on the ratio of bucks to does in your area those big guys that you are letting walk can spread there genes in a hury. So there is no doubt that you can change the heard in your area.
We have done this in our area and in 5 years we have seen a dramatic change.....but our nieghboring farms and the hunters on them are also doing the same thing. We've never seen so many trophies before. Sudies only do so much in this gene talk, it all depends on what kind of area you are doing the study in, is it a controlled area, free ranging conrolled area, are the nieghboring farms or leases doing the same thing, how big ofan area is the study being done in. So I wouldn't refer to studies that have been done on this subject. If you area is a controlled area and everyone that is hunting on it is doing the same thing, it can only help grow bigger deer plain and simple.
I think your doing the right thing. Alot of ranches and outfitters do the same thing. They let clients or themselves trophy hunt deer and at the end of the year or at the end of the hunt for clients let them take cull buck or bucks with bad genes out of the heard. It allows you to get some meat in the freezer and there is no doubt that you are giving yourself a better chance of having better deer around if you are doing this year after year. Bucks can travel 20 miles away during the rut, but will they if they don't have to NO! If there are does around they will not leave and if there are less bucks to bread them they expecially will not leave. Most of thetrophies in our area that we have taken, we have watched them for a couple of years, that means that they are breeding does in the area for a couple of years and spreading there genes.Depending on the ratio of bucks to does in your area those big guys that you are letting walk can spread there genes in a hury. So there is no doubt that you can change the heard in your area.
We have done this in our area and in 5 years we have seen a dramatic change.....but our nieghboring farms and the hunters on them are also doing the same thing. We've never seen so many trophies before. Sudies only do so much in this gene talk, it all depends on what kind of area you are doing the study in, is it a controlled area, free ranging conrolled area, are the nieghboring farms or leases doing the same thing, how big ofan area is the study being done in. So I wouldn't refer to studies that have been done on this subject. If you area is a controlled area and everyone that is hunting on it is doing the same thing, it can only help grow bigger deer plain and simple.