PT's "Spike" thead...
 

What do you guys REALLY makes a spike a spike?

From everything I hear and read.....it has everything to do with being a late born fawn.....and little (if anything) to do with genetics.

Are there STILL people out there that think the "Once a spike" garbage is real?

RE: PT's "Spike" thead...
 

I don't think anyone believes that once a spike, always a spike .... I think they believe they will never attain to what a 6 or 8 will as a mature buck ...... AND the spike can pass on the perceived inferior genetics .....

RE: PT's "Spike" thead...
 

I guarentee there are still those "once a spike always a spike" guys out there. Specially those once a year gun hunters.

I agree it probably has a lot to do with being born late, or having a mother who didn't take real good care of the little one. Didn't let him feed very often or weaned him early in the season.

The majority of the nutrients go to feed the body and the bones. Anything that is left over goes to the antlers.

RE: PT's "Spike" thead...
 

I thought that also after everyone on here saying that but I have a friend of mine who raises and sells deer (small hobby farm). This friend of mine bought this BB fawn from another guy 2 years ago. The next year that BB fawn from the previous year grew spikes and my buddy called the guy he bought It from asking him a few questions about this fawn and the fawns dad. The fawn wasn't a late born fawn (like It would matter anyway, pen raised). The fawns dad was also a spike his 1st year and then In It's 2nd year he was a 115" 10 point. This same BB fawn ended up growing damn near an Identical rack this year at 2.5 years old like his dad did. So yes I believe genes are a part of this also.

RE: PT's "Spike" thead...
 

My Biologist aged this deer by his Liver Spots.... 6.5 Years Old.

RE: PT's "Spike" thead...
 

Find a new biologist.

RE: PT's "Spike" thead...
 

If Thats a 6.5 year old dear.....I'll I'll I don't know what I'll do, but thats not a 6.5 year old deer. Thats a 1.5 old. You can tell by looking at it. My Uncle is a wildlife biologist. He says spikes on average are late born fawns. He said they're usually from yearling does bred in the second, or even third rut. He said occasionally though bucks can be passed on the spike gene, but just because they're a spike doesn't mean they won't be a trphy. They had a penned spike that ended up scoring 169 at 6.5

RE: PT's "Spike" thead...
 

Almost to a man the guys at my hunt club believe that once a spike always crap. Of the 20 members maybe 3 of us KNOW its BS.

RE: PT's "Spike" thead...
 

That has been a long held belief here in Pennsylvania too. I'm sure many of the old timers still believe it.

BTW buckmaster...I'm with IAhuntr. You need a new biologist. Nothing in that picturepoints to an old deer.

RE: PT's "Spike" thead...
 

buckmaster, i REALLY hope you're kidding!:D

RE: PT's "Spike" thead...
 

Of course he is, I can't believe some bit. [8D]

RE: PT's "Spike" thead...
 

Bravo, Aaron. You can cull a few from the creel, now.;)

RE: PT's "Spike" thead...
 

You just never know with some of the stuff I've seen written on here.

RE: PT's "Spike" thead...
 

True that one Jim!!

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RE: PT's "Spike" thead...
 

I don't think they will always be a spike and I know there are always exceptions and some scientific data to back up the exceptions, but I can't buy into the theory that probability wise that a 1.5yo spike has EQUAL chance of becoming a bonafide "shooter" for its area as compared to its 1.5yo peers that are already sixes and eights with some width or height.

Yet many people who will not shoot spikes because they supposedly know better don't hesitate to shoot the 1.5yo and 2.5yo sixes and eights that haven't yet quite made "shooter status" for that particular area,but they are bigger than the spikes and the 4's . I understand that not only is "shooter status" subjective from one area to another but it is also subjective from one hunter to the next, but I think one can understand the jest of my statement whether they agree with it or not.

I know this is impossible to do in real life, but if we could I would love totake 100 1.5 yo bucks. Half of them are spikes and the other half or sixes or eights. If all are allowed to make it to 4.5 yo, which half would you bet on as to which half would have the highest aggregate inches of racks. I'll take the sixes and eights and you can have the spikes. The bet is even money. Any takers?

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RE: PT's "Spike" thead...
 

Charles Aslheimer dispelled this on the last aired issue of QDMA (TV Show). When you think about it.....the 2.5 who was a 6-8 point as a 1.5 has just as good a chance of not getting the best nutrition in his second year as the 2.5 who was a spike as a 1.5.

RE: PT's "Spike" thead...
 

I can't argue that. But if they are on the same farm as 1.5's, then the same argument can be made. The spike had the same nutritional opportunities as the six/eight. So then the argument goes that the spike could be several months younger. Okay, if his body size is also appreciably smaller, I'll buy that. But what if his body size is just as big or bigger than the six/eight?

Surely Aslheimer nor any other "authority" on the subject is implying that antler growth is WHOLLY dependent upon ONLY age and nutrition and that genetics are irrevelant.

It is my understanding that what they are saying is that 1.5 is too early to properly evaluate genetic potential. I'll buy that to a degree but having said that I am still going to put my money on the sixes and eights PERCENTAGE wise, and by a pretty wide margin.

RE: PT's "Spike" thead...
 

Exactly.

I saw a BB this year that was larger (body-wise) than the spike he was walking with. Funny looking.

So of course genetics plays a role. You're gonna always have runts and studs.

RE: PT's "Spike" thead...
 

The only limiting factor in my area is age and weather, genetics really dont mean squat. If we have a light winter, the deer dont need to regain health, they can cut right to producing their antlers. Theres plenty of good nutrition around here thats for sure. Our wicked long gun season and hunter numbers just dont allow many bucks to survive. Hunters around here are certainly not as picky as me. As long as a buck is 3.5+, I dont care if he's 100 or 140, im probably still gonna shoot him....