I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

OCTOBER 24, 2008


The Pennsylvania Board of Game Commissioners today gave preliminary approval to expand the lawful use of crossbows to include both the archery deer and bear seasons. The Board would need to approve the measure at another public meeting in order for the proposal to take effect, so this change will not be in place for the 2008-09 seasons.

The proposal giving preliminary approval also would remove the lawful use of crossbows during the October muzzleloader or late flintlock muzzleloader season.

Other changes made by the proposal would simplify and make the language of the regulations easier to understand.


Good luck!!!!

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

Katie bar the door.

Oh wait.....didn't ya'll ban baiting? Nevermind. 68% of your hunters probably quit at that notion, anyways.:D

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

I read that this being finalized is mearly a formality. And yes, Matt/Pa will not be a happy camper.

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

Im betting life goes on.:)

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

One step closer to One big season!

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

Yikes!!;)

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

That'll be great. Pennsylvania bow season can now just be one big happy trailer park.

At least now the upside is that all those scumbuckets who lie like rugs and feign disabilities to get their crossbow permit - now they won't have to fake it anymore.

Next step: Legalizing the idling ATV as a legal "treestand."

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

Its a shame, I agree. A crossbow is not a bow. I don't care you look at it. What is really sad is I believe it does state in the current regs that a compound bow can't have one of those devices that basically holds the bow at full draw for you. What is the difference between this and a crossbow?

The only slight bright spot to this is that maybe we'll see less wounded deer this way.

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

i heard the same as Early in, that its got 1 more vote to go through and it seems like its gunna be real...


i dont wanna see it. i live and hunt in 2B...ive had farms close the door on all archery hunters because deer were running around with bolts sticking out of them. thats no joke. one farmer had 4 or 5 bucks in 1 season...all crossbow bolts. he closed the farm.

with as many hunters as we have in PA, i think it will get ugly. yes, bad shots happen no matter what the weapon. but my beef with the crossbow crowd is that ALL too many of them think they are rifles. yes, they can hit a target at 50 and 60yds...but so can i with my compound. most just dont realize that they dont have the energy requierd for those long shots...taking neck and shoulder shots like they are shooting a rifle...etc etc...

they might as well just open the rifle season when ARCHERY season starts and just run it the whole way through....

they are also trying like mad to allow INLINE muzzleloaders in our late FLINTLOCK and ARCHERY season (crossbows are already allowed state wide for 2 weeks in rifle and 3 weeks in the late season)

i wont quit hunting....but i wont be happy.

i have NO problem with people that HONESTLY cannot use a BOW using a crossbow...but to everyone else, either learn the game and shoot a BOW or stay outta ARCHERY season!!! same goes with the guys that want inlines in FLINTLOCK season.

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

I think crossbows (and I have one) during "regular archery" seasonis kind of like the separation of Church and State, if you know what I mean.;):D

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

What ever happened to Power to the people???

Ryan.

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

Never been a fan of crossbow hunting, and I'm glad Illinois doesn't allow them. However, ifa person is physically unable to draw a bow then that's a different story.

My dad has shot a recurve all his life. In the last few years he has became unable to draw it back effectively enough to hunt with it on a regular basis. He refuses to apply for a crossbow permit saying that is isn't bowhunting. Heck he won't even let me give him my Switchback.

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

I don't quite follow this logic. How is allowing a crossbow to be used during the entire archery season going to account for less wounded deer?

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

I;m physicaly disabled i've put my xbow up against my fathers bow at 40yd and a compound will outshoot a xbow any day. Anyone who has never shot a xbow doesnt understand the range the NOISE for morest. They are no rifle no matter how No 1 looks at them. If you have never shot one you can not judge one!

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

New Jersey is allowing the crossbows in next year also durning the archery season [:@]poor poor deer

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

you mean ............it's not?[8D]

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

You forgot the last couple words.... its power to the people 'who have the power'


VA did that a couple years ago. Good luck with all your new bowhunters [&:]

My neighbor told me yesterday....his yahoo son got a crossbow this year so he could bowhunt. He was out and a doe came in to 10yds, he had to turn around and shoot a different way than he was set up. Well, since he hadn't practiced much "cause its pretty much like a gun - he said" [:'(], he conveniently forgot to move his thumb out of the way of the string. Thwack....dang near cut his thumb off, they had to rush him to the emergency room. [&:]

Enjoy....:D

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

This boils down to one thing here in PA and thats the almighty $Dollar$. The crossbow companies have been pushing like crazy to sell crossbows in PA for a few years now and the Game commission has finally folded to the pressure. My problem with crossbows is the same as others have stated. The fact that guys think they dont have to practice with it and that guys view them as the next best thing to a gun. They think that now they are shooting with 150-200lbs of pull that they now can shoot out to 60, 70, 80, 90 or even 100yds. Ask the archery proshops in Ohio what happened when crossbows were allowed. Many shops closed up their doors because guys didn't need the service to their bows and they could buy their crossbows through catalogs. One of the biggest opponents in PA to crossbows is Rob Kaufhold the owner of lancaster Archery. Give him a call and ask him to tell you the reasons why crossbows should not be allowed. He has a fantastic view on it. He doesn't have a problem with the weapon itself, its the fact that guys think its like a gun and if these guys buy these crossbows through catalogs they are not getting the information dispelling the "Like-a-gun" myth. If they buy the crossbow in shops the pro-shop can inform the buyer on the real limitations of the weapon and how it should be used and not used. All I can say to all the PA guys and even the non PA guys is contact the Game Commission and lets put the pressure on them to not allow them, Maybe we could come up with a sort of form letter that all of us could keep sending to the Game Commission. What does everyone think?

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

Does this suprise anybody! This was a done deal from the git$$$$$ The UBP fought the good fight and lost. Oh well what can you do? Its a stacked deck with the PGC and the Harrisburg HACKS!!!!

Hatchet Jack

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

You're exactly right PA. They did it in Maryland. They wined and dined everyone they could who had power to get them into Maryland. All the manufacturers doing. I suppose next they'll come to NY and try the same thing.Our season has been cut already by the DEC. We only had 17 days here in the Northern Tier of NY this year. Gun season on the other hand starts with a Muzzleloader season our last week of bow beginning Oct 11th, then gun season Oct 18th. So really, bow season is Oct 1-10th and then we had to share a week after that with Muzzleloaders. So guns are going off from Oct 11-Dec 4th. Hardly seems equality to me. NY Bowhunters Association tried to get them to open the season Sept 15th, no dice. They wouldn't even entertain it.

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

Welcome to the jungle :D

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

Dude, I don't know what disability you have, but smoking the crack won't help. I bought a crossbow for my dad because he cannot pull a bow due to a bad back and anyone that says a crossbow cannot outshoot a bow needs to stop shooting altogether.

I'm a pretty good shot with a bow and that crossbow was point, pull, shoot, hit bullseye time after time.

I do not have a problem with crossbows as a weapon, I do have a problem with the vast majority of guys that choose to use them in this state. Not the cream of the crop.[:'(]

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

I'm seriously against anyone who is healthy and can pull a normal bow from using them. I have no issues with disabled persons or even older people who can't physically pull a normal bow anymore.

PAHardwoods is exactly right. I can just see all of the idiots walking around the woods making bad shots on game because they think it has the capability of a gun.

It does come down to money. The PA Game Commission is grabbing at straws. License sales are down and anything they can do to possibly get people to buy a license and hunt, they'll do it. They're a victom of their own demise. They created this mess and are trying to fix it by introducing ridiculous regulations and new seasons.

In my honest opinion, PGC has ruined the traditions of hunting in PA. The sad reality is, it is only going to get worse.:(

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

Wow, I am amazed at some of the comments here. AR has had xbows legal for as long as I can remember. You know who uses them here? Old men and kids. I honestly don't know of more than a handful of capable people here that use them, and the one's that do usually hunt 4 or 5 days per year.

How would we feel if the traditional guys felt the same about our compounds? I'm sure some do but most trad shooters couldn't care less what other people are using to bowhunt with. Why should we?

Maybe if someone would care to enlighten me why a person should not use a crossbow I would understand.
1. Easier - Nope. Have you ever tried toting one around in the woods or have one up in a stand with you. The damn things are cumbersome as hell.
2.Further Range - Nope. Todays bows shoot just as flat and are accurate for just as far.
3.Limited motion - Nope. Try getting a second shot off with a xbow

BTW - I used one for 1/2of the 1992 season when I cut the tips of my fingers off. Hated it.

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

THe thing that bugs me about crossbows is the mentality of some of the people shooting them. My dad had the same mentality for a while...but he got out of it. Like somebody else said, some people think they havea longer range when in reality they do not.

Like somebody else said...they are loud, they are heavy, they are cumbersome. When my dads shoulder healed up enoughhe started carrying his regular bow again.

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

:D:D:D If there had been the internet 35 years ago you would have seen this exact thread with "compound" substituted everywhere for "crossbow". When you look at it from a traditional standpoint what makes all you holier-than-thou compound shooters think that you're really shooting "bows"? The crossbow at least has a traditional history that stretches back farther than the compound. If you're arguing against the technological advantage of the crossbow, don't jump up and down too hard, you may go through that thin ice you're standing on.

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

I think they'd be a disadvantage to a healthy guy. I mean really, they're so dang noisy. When I hear one go off I can jump almost as far as a deer. Someone said fewer wounding shot. Heck, with a deers reaction time it could be more. They're just trying to get more hunters out to kill more deer for the insurance companies.[&:]

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

Kodiak, what came first? the compound bow? or the COMPOUND CROSSbow?? real question....i have no idea....not tryin to start a peeing match....just getting my facts straight.

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

I rarely get into these airheaded debates, but seriously, who are these compound shooting "purists" (in their own minds..) anyone to downgrade guys who legally pursue game with a Xbow? Doesnt seem right to me...I'd love to hear from the PA archers who bowhunt without the "training wheels" that are on your state of the art ______ bows that shoot accurately out to 50+ yards...Jeesh guys. Grow up (coming from a 19 year old). [:@]

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

I believe the compound bow was before the compound crossbow. From my limited understanding pre-80's xbows were quite crude.

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: muzzyman88

I'm seriously against anyone who is healthy and can pull a normal bow from using them. I have no issues with disabled persons or even older people who can't physically pull a normal bow anymore.

I agree....I wish NY would at least change their laws to allow crossbow. I hunt with a 72 y/o and a 77 y/o hunter their whole lives and they can no longer pull a bow back. Why should they give up bow hunting????

Davidmil...I hear NY Bowhunters is the main reason no legislation will be passed in this state! That is a real shame that they blockedthebill to introduce disabled and elder hunters bow hunters.

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

Things may be great in AR. I know it works in OH. Here in PA most of the guys toting crossbows are perfectly capable of shooting a compound, but too lazy to practice. Solution, buy a crosssbow. If they are too lazy to practice with a bow do you think they will take the time to learn the capabilities of a crossbow, what shot angles to take, how to estimate range, proper tracking techniques? Nope, they hunt just like they gun hunt and they don't do that effectively either. SLOBS

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

I read a couple years ago 55% of Ohio's archers hunt with crossbows. 45% a vertical bow. Something like 15% hunt with both however.

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

C'mon man, listen to yourself. Here in the USA most of the guys toting compounds are perfectly capable of shooting a longbow, but too lazy to practice. Solution, buy a compound... You're making some pretty bold and unfounded accusations against a lot of your fellow sportsman. Given that PA doesn't even allow xbow hunting, what are you basing these wild accusations on? Hearsay. No better than PETA. IMHO.

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

I usually have enough sense to not let anything said on these forums get to me anymore, but comparing me to PETA straight up pisses me off. You need to do your homework son before you start spouting off. I live in the SE zone where crossbows have been legal to anyone willing to buy one for the last several years. When it happened I kept an open mind and welcomed my new archery brothers to the sport. Since then I have been sickened by what I have seen. Shots taken at horrible angles, deer left dead because "it's just a doe", wounded deer lost due to a lack of tracking knowledge, ridiculously long shots being taken, and I could go on. These are things I have been around first hand. The stories I have heard that would be hearsay are worse. One of the guys that I share a property with is disabled and uses a cart and a crossbow and he is constantly justifying his use of a crossbow to me because he knows what slobs the other crossbow users are. I tell him not to worry about it because I know he is a hunter and not what those guys are.

Perfect example, we are hunting a property with a couple of guys a friend of mine knowsand one guy with a crossbowis in a woodlot along the field. He has us push out a patch and a great looking 9 point bucks runs out to him.My buddysees the buck from 100 yards away as he enters the field and runs past the crossbow toter. He thinks to himself, "man that deer is far from the woods." Just as he thinks that TWANG! My buddy goes right to where the deer was standing and the crossbow guy says "I just missed him. He must have been at 40 yards." My buddy pulls out his range finder and ranges the guy, 72 yards.[:@]

You want to hear some more wild accusations??? I'm not going to tell you how things are in Alaska, so don't try to be so presumptuous as to tell me how things are in PA. Again, not everyone that hunts with a crossbow is like this, but the vast majority in this state are. SLOBS Do not call them fellow sportsmen. It is an insult to the rest of us.

Don't speak of what you don't know of.

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

Here are a couple of FACTS about crossbows. I own a CB, and a compound. I've killed plenty of deer with both. Once you have a scope mounted CB "sighted in"you really don't have to practice with it. It will remain deadly accurate (I shoot half dollar size groups constantly)much like a gun. That's an advantage.This isn't the case with a compound bow that you need to practice with to keep your muscles toned, and your eye on.
A crossbow is NOISY, and you will almost never get a second shot at a deer with it, like you sometimes can with a compound. That's a disadvantage.A bolt from a CBwill not keep on a flat plane for the distance that an arrow will from a compound bow.That's a disadvantage. You can shoot later in the evening with a CB because of the light gathering properties of the scope. Advantage. You don't have to draw a CB and possibly spook deer. Advantage. You can hold a CB until the cows come home, and still shoot it accurately unlike the compound. Advantage. I could go on further, but I think you get the idea.There is an overall advantage to usinga CB, it's that simple. I personally don't care that they will probably become legal to use during regular archery season here in Pa because there's nothing I can do about it. So we will have to co-exist with them, like it or not. Sorry to be the barer(sp) of bad news.
I am not saying I will never hunt with my CB again, but for now I'm shooting only my compound because I killed too many deer with my CB in a short span of time, and found it a little too easy. These are all things I learned from shooting BOTH weapons.;)

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

Serious question.....how is this the weapon's fault?

People link weapon's to slob hunters I don't get it....instead of fighting against weapons to be used....why don't people fight for competence tests or something? Crossbows don't hunt on their own. These same guys could just as easily be out there with a compound...and if they are too lazy to practice with any weapon, I for one would WANT them to be using the most efficient and "easy" weapon...less chance of wounding animals (although Im not even sure crossbows are that much easier and more accurate.

I'm with David on this one...I feel like crossbows almost may be a hinderance. Sure you don't have to draw on the shot, but then....when hunting woods, who CAN'T get to full draw? Just pull back when it is behind a tree from you. I see each weapon having its positives and negatives. Crossbows being more efficient is BS though.



For all Crossbow haters...If used by responsible hunters, are you still against their use? (or is it just the slob hunting skills used by the stereotyped "crossbow hunter"?)

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

Seriously.......:eek:Speak of what you know.

I'm trying to not allow my head to explode believe me.......my Dad is heading in for surgery Mondayand I don't want to be on a table next to him. :eek:

Heavyloud-ass bolt lobbers of 10-12yrs agoand even 5-6yr old crossbows do not compare to the weapons available today.
To say today's offerings are not easier, more efficient or accurate for deer is not only wrong it'soff the chartssilly.
As you all know I handle some of the most powerful of them on a regular basis, if you haven't shot one of the 2008 or 009 models.........yeah brother it's an eye opener [:-]. Groups I could only dream of at 75 yards with enough KE at that range for the biggest mechanical heads.
Some of them carry more energy at 100yds than my 70# 30" draw length will give me at point blank with my compound. THAT IS A FACT.
This notion of "They are less efficient" or "Carry less" is flat out nonsense when you speak of the top end stuff.

Its no secret I'm against them in PA, we've beat that horse to a pulp so I won't be baited into anotehr long drawn out argument.
If it works for your little Podunk state somewhere great, you guys enjoy em. PA is a MONSTER and by the sounds of it the monster is about to rear it's ugly head.[&o]

I hope I'm wrong but my gut, experience hunting inTHIS state for 24yrs, extreme first hand knowledge of the products and the attitudes of the hunters here tell me otherwise.

I know of 3 rifle hunters who have never bowhunted a day in their lives (one is my 1st cousin) who actually told me they will buy a crossbow the second it passes because as they admit "It's just like my rifle, I don't have time for all that archery crap but I understand rifle scopes".

You guys who want to rationalize why we should all be banding together and singing campfire songs have no idea.
I have to listen to an almost daily basis of horror stories of shots taken and deer wounded and/or lost by "Regular Bowhunters" who supposedly know what they are doing even from my ARCHERY club.:eek:
I would certainly hope any change in the regulations would be followed by mandatory bowhunter education to show the rifle only guys that a shoulder blade isn't a trarget, and combine it with sound blood trailing instruction but I can guarantee that will never happen.
They'll simply pass it, applaud the $$$ gains, drop the flag on the butchering and shorten the archery season for all of us.
But as it will be pointed out in the personal attacks on my view.......what do I know that some guy from Arkansas or Ohio can't already tell me about hunting here.

I am not kidding, if it passes the year prior might bethe last PA archery license I ever buy.:(

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

So if crossbows are the rifles of archery, why not allow these slob archers to use the fae superior killing weapon?

Just to make sure I read this right, you will no longer hunt your home state if crossbows are allowed?:eek:

RE: I thought I heard Matt/PA head explode
 

You have the ability to read, so read it correctly and answer your own question.

:eek: