GMMAT

I've only been at this a few years, now....and I admit to getting caught up in the "speed" thing in the past. Speed is great. It's an advantage in most all cases. Having a bow capable of pushing top speeds is an advantage. If nothing else.....it allows one to set up a heavier arrow and still achieve "optimal" speeds/setups.

That's where I'm coming full circle.

I remember shooting 3D in VA with the TN state champ a couple seasons ago. As always....the conversation got around to hunting. He said he'd taken 17 deer with his bow the prior season. He also said he liked for his hunting setup to push his arrow no more than 250fps. When I asked "why?"....he said ....any faster than that....and he can't see the arrow make impact.

I've always struggled with that, too. I occasionally see the arrow make impact. More times than not...I simply see a hole appear on the animal. I'm trying to build a heavy arrow (for penetration purposes) but I must admit the fact I may see the impact better is a "plus".

I'm in the process of trying to SLOW DOWN my arrow. It's a natural side-effect of adding weight....but I'm looking at it as a "positive". A 30yd shot in my hunting situations is a long shot. So, trajectory issues shouldn't be an issue. If I hunted the western plains....or planned on longer shots in the field....I might have a different outlook.

Looking for +/-525gr. and 250fps. right now. I'll report back when I give them a field test. I've taken my last 11 deer with two pass-thrus. My goal is to have one EVERY time. We'll see. I hope to be able to see my impacts better, too.

Speed is great. Using all that your bow will produce is great.....for some. Having it at your disposal (and being able to do what I'm doing) is something everyone can't do. So....I'm not putting down "speed bows" (quite the contrary). Just offering a different (not "different" to many here who've been around the block and KNOW what I'm talking about) perspective.

Planter

I agree speed isover rated when it comes to eastern up close bow ranges but a flat tradjectory for the longer shooting western guys might be a great benefit.

Jeff have you really only gotten 2 pass thru's out of 11 deer. A hunting buddy of mine was not getting the pass thoughs he expected. He does his own work on his bow but had never shot through paper. It turns out his tears were poor. He shot well but the arrows were hitting the bull with a slight cant to them which really affected penetration.

GMMAT

I'm not making this stuffup. I'm concerned. My bow (believe me) is in tune. I BH tune it....and admittedly don't paper tune. When I go to 60 yds and get true flight.....I'm pretty sure it's true at the shorter distances. My arrows are impacting my target(s) in a linear fashion (no fish-tailing).

These results are with two different bows over the better part of two seasons. Two bows with two different #-ages (66#'s and 60#'s).....producing KE #'s in the +/-70FP's to almost 80FP's.

As soon as my shafts get here....I'll have the arrow I want to try built. We'll go from there.

Kanga

Jeff.

If you go for a extreme high FOC arrow you will get better arrow flight and a lot more penetration.

What arrows are you getting?

You can get 100grbrass inserts from www.3riversarchery.com for just about any shaft combine those with a 125gr head and your FOC should be right up there as long as the arrow is spined right for your set up you should not have any trouble getting a pass through

Vabowman

I went the speed route last year with the X Force and I was shooting over 300 fps, that was fast for me with 26.5" draw, but I was not able to shoot it well...this yr with Ally Im shooting 280 fps and i think this is ideal for hunting.

YooperMike

I'm a bit puzzled on the lack of pass-throughs you are getting too. Rage or not, you are pushing good energy. I have always shot bows on the slower side, mostly because of my draw length. At 32" of draw, my arrows are inherently long, thus adding weight. Fine by me though! My current setup with my Commander is only going 268 on the chrono, but my 565 gr. arrow is getting 90#s of energy. I've never really conciously thought about the visual impact this has, as far as being able to see the arrow in flight, since I've always been able to see mine plodding toward the intended target. I think you will like the slower arrow in the hunting environment, and if you are only shooting to 30 yards, even better. The one advantage I see with my slower bow, is that my sight pins are farther apart, eliminating any pin confusion. I know this shouldn't happen, but when Mossy Horns Ghost Face is standing there, I don't need anything else to worry about!

Are you switching bows too do you think?

GMMAT

Kanga:

I'm looking at either the a/c/c 3-60 OR the PSE Black Mamba. I'll pull the trigger on one of them, today.

I bought the muzzy 100gr brass inserts....and I'll compliment them with a 100gr BH. Total arrow weight should be around 515gr.

Matt/NC

I see your point Jeff. I know you all have seen me posting about wanting a fast bow, but it is not to have the fastest bow. My goal is to havea bow that is IBO set for well over 300 this way I can set it up for hunting specs with an arrow 420 grains or better and still hit the 290 to 300 fps. Also as far as point of impact goes thats another reason I will be shooting tracers. I honestly don't see why in the world someone would want to take a bow that shoots 350 fps, and shoot a 350 grain arrow out of it. I think you need a little more punch along with the speed.

silentassassin

Jeff I completely understand your thinking and (I hope heis not watching this[8D]) but the longer I do this the more I agree with AurturP that momentum is more important than KE. I shoot kind of a mid wieght setup. I am shooting a 434 grain arrow at 287 fps. I have always gotten great pentration out of this setup. According to Dr. Ashby's study of momentum (depending on the braodhead coefficient used) I am getting close to the magic number of .57 foot pounds of momentum. I shoot mechanicals either Undertakers or Rages depending on the day. I have had great success with both. I actually shot a doe the other day and dead centered the femur on the offside leg as it exited and it snapped the leg bone and still passed through. I shoot a heavier arrow to slow my bow down and would actually prefer another 25 grains of arrow wieght (125 grain head) but they don't make a 125 grain Rage or Undertaker so I switched back to 100 grain heads. I think you will definitely see your pass through percentage go up though I am suprised you are getting them now. Good luck! Let us know how it turns out.

Cougar Mag

Me like it. I liken it to the impact of a .38 vs a .45.