GMMAT

No Yoop....no need to change bows. I've finally found the bow I'll shoot for years.....and it took me coming full-circle to do that.

teedub31

Just be cautious witn broadhead selection. I just started archery this year after a 15 year hiatus. I was shooting an old Martin Lynx Magnum set at 55lbs using the old Aluminim gamegetter arrows tipped with a mechanical crimson talon broadhead. The deer I arrowed on Election day (wohoo at least something good happed then) only penatrated about 4 inches on a perfect broadside shot 3 inches back from the shoulder.

Upon futher research, the tip on that braodhead requires speed for penetration. It was one of the spiral tips. Tests show it requires about 40 lbs of energy to penetrate deer hide. Slower bows don't produce to much more then that. I was advised to use a cut on contact BH if I continue shooting that bow.

HammytheHunter

I'll be interested to hear the results Jeff... so please keep us posted. I too think that a lot of people get caught up in the hype that is "bow speed" when in reality it doesn't take as much speed as one thinks to take down a deer. Now other animals with thicker and tougher hides... maybe.

I too have been debating messing with my arrow as well as poundage to see if I can achieve more accurate flight versus speed. My Guardian is LIGHT YEARS ahead of my old PSE Baby G-Force in regards to speed and quietness. However, even though my Baby-G is a good bit slower than my Guardian... I never had any problems with pass throughs or speed while in the woods with that bow. It was and still is an amazing bow and I keep it as my backup. So in my opinion... my Guardian's speed doesn't really matter all that much to me seeing as I was able to do just as well in the past with a slower bow. Also, when I was shooting my PSE... I had absolutely NO knowledge of arrow spine... that knowledge didn't come until 2 years ago when I really started to research (I'm 27 and been bowhunting regularly for 13 years now).

All of my shots in the past were with Muzzy heads, so obviously I can't comment on the lack of pass throughs with the Rage expandables. That doesn't mean I don't have one in my quiver to test. Like I said... keep us posted... I'm curious to see the results.

Mikey S.

GMMAT, I'm gonna go with Yooper on this one. I've been trying to follow your arrow posts, but with work and hunting, it's tough to keep up with threads.

I don't get your 2/11 with pass thru. What happened to the other 9 ? Did you kill them? Not busting your stones, just trying to get an idea of what's going on here. Where are you hitting these deer ? PM me if you don't want to post your info again about this. I'm curious as hel about this.

I certainly don't want to sound like a know-it all, but I've taken 42 whitetails with a bow, and can think of 3 that weren't pass thru's. 5 tops if I rack my brains. I don't shoot anything heavy either. 65lbs tops, 400 grain arrow, 100 gr. muzzy, slik trik, or innerloc broadheads since 1993. For5 years after a shoulder injury in 2000, I shot a 55lb. bow with 28" C Xpress 200 arrow at 7 grains per inch with a 75 gr muzzy. 14 deer down with that combo, only one not a pass thru........and that was because the arrow hit a sapling behind the deer and stuck in it. I like you, take most deer inside 30 yds. Maybe 3 in my life over 30. Tops. And those were pass thru's. I've never owned a hunting that shoots over 270, and never figured up KE or FOC.

As far as seeing your arrow, that's a tough one. With your heavy weight up front, you have room to play with a lighted nock. Bright fletchings help too. But I wouldn't recommend developing a habit of watching your arrows fly. That leads to horrible follow through after release, dropping the bow arm, and peeking up out of your peep/anchor point. You WANT to pick your spot/hair on the deer, focus on it, release, and if all goes well, you'll catch the arrow out of the corner of your eye and see the hole appear on the deer.

Anyway, just some food for thought for you. Not trying to change your mind, or disagree with you, just throwing some #'s out there for you.

GMMAT

Out of that number, yes....I killed the other 9. Some had entrance/exit wounds (most, really) but a complete pass-thru I did not get.

Here's just a few of the ones from this season that I did not get a complete pass-thru on.

No. 1 shot at 6 yds from 23'



8yds from 23'



23yds from 23'



In each instance...I had and entrance and an exit wound. Numbers one and two I recovered broken arrows near the POI. Number 3...I never recovered the arrow.

GMMAT

Here's the 4th bowkill from this season....shot at 10 yds from 23'. I recovered the arrow 10yds from the POI....and I also got an entrance/exit wound.

brucelanthier

My arrow flys at 223FPS and I can consistantly hit a 4" circle at 45 yds. My max hunting range is 25 yds but I would use the same arrow at 45 yds and quite possibly even farther if I ever needed to hunt at those ranges. I never understood the need for a flat trajectory if you can hit your spot, regardless of range. I'll take my slow, heavy, high FOCarrow and stack its performance against any fast, light, low FOCarrow at any range.

Kudos to you, GMMAT, for being willing to look at other options to improve the performance of your hunting setup instead of just saying, "...it's good enough, it kills deer....". It may kill deer but it isn't performing up to the level you expect and that is what we need to have confidence in our setups.

GregH

I've said this before..... I shoot fixed pins and fixed blade broadheads.

I get the best results by shooting 270-275 fps. It also keeps a bigger gap between my pins for easier sighting.

WV Hunter

I agree that speed is overrated for hunting. Yes...its nice, but certainly not needed, especially when the majority of shots are < 30yds. I shoot a 530gr arrow @ 240fps....I get passthroughs 90+% of the time. If I dont...its typically becasue I made a bad shot like into the knuckle joint or something. Keep in mind, I shot Muzzy's for years, then went to Magnus about 5-6 yrs ago. Both have performed excellent for me. Only thing I can think for you is that the BH's you've been using are just eating up tons of energy. Even so....its still puzzling why you haven't gotten more passthroughs though, you've hit your deer well. No major bone involved - should be blowing right through imo. ? Good luck.

SA - you are right, ArthurP is probably right. [8D]Think about the older bows, or even the guys who shoot recurves with a good broadhead (and heavy arrow) that still get passthroughs....gotta be something to it.

kwilson16

Jeff-

Weird. Just last night, Iswitched and re-tuned my bow for 7595 GT Pro Hunters with a 100 grain Muzzy brass insert. This may not quailfy as an 'extreme' FOC set-up. But, as soon as I get some more doe tags, I will have a report.

I don't keep track of pass thru's. However, most of my stands are 25+ - which is essential given the pressure in this area.It is much more difficult to achieve a pass thru from higher stand heights. I know you're a statistics fiend. Can you correlate your pass thru's to the heights from which the deer were shot?

Thanks to Kanga and Aussieguy for their help in drinking the high FOC Koolaid.