A thought on the Great "RAGE" debate.
 

There are guys that love these heads and seem to have no problems. There are also guys that are complaining about pass thru issues and such. What I am wondering is what kind of kinetic energy are the bows making. What I am trying to see if there seems to be some kind of pattern emerging, something along the lines of a cutoff point where pass thru's with these heads seem to be a problem. I for one shoot around 70 ft/lbs. of energy and have no problems. Just interested to see if we as a group can pick something out. List your draw weights, Kinetic energy , and arrow weight.

Shane

RE: A thought on the Great "RAGE" debate.
 

The formula for Kinetic energy is: velocity x velocity x arrow weight divided by 450,240

Shane

RE: A thought on the Great "RAGE" debate.
 

I shoot a 360 gr arrow, @ 71# with 26.5 " draw for 280 fps= about 63 lbs of KE I guess.

RE: A thought on the Great "RAGE" debate.
 

I should have stated I shoot a 430 grain arrow

RE: A thought on the Great "RAGE" debate.
 

I shoot a Guardian at 70lbs a 378 grain arrow at 289 fps, so i believe that would give me around 75 kinetic energy. I have never had a problem with heads not opening or pass throughs, and this is for double lungers as well as shoulder shots. I do check my heads constantyl though to make sure they are working as intended.

RE: A thought on the Great "RAGE" debate.
 

70# draw with 426gr arrows out of a commander, not quite sure on speed but i am guessing my kinetic energy to be around 72 lbs. All but one of the deer i have shot with the 2 blade rage were pass throughs.

RE: A thought on the Great "RAGE" debate.
 

I doon't shoot the Rage, but do shoot 2 bladed Synpers so I'll chime in here anyway.

430 grain arrow. 249 FPS. KE is 59.21

Three deer shot. Deer were at approximately 20 yards, 15 yards and 10 yards. Two complete pass throughs with arrow stuck in the dirt. Third one, no pass through. BH lodged in far shoulder. Archers fault, not the BH.

RE: A thought on the Great "RAGE" debate.
 

KE is simple...and all you need ot know is I shoot a 366gr arrow at 290fps.

I think that's almost 71FP/KE.

I'm not getting pass-thrus.

RE: A thought on the Great "RAGE" debate.
 

id like to see everyone from the orignal pass through debate chime in with arrow weight...

RE: A thought on the Great "RAGE" debate.
 

Heres my take on the situation. Its pretty simple. With a perfect shot the Rage heads are doing some serious damage. On a not so perfect shot(shoulder), the may have some problems.

RE: A thought on the Great "RAGE" debate.
 

I agree and I believe the problem is in the tip. The cut on contact blade style tips tend to stick in bone instead of penetrating and breaking bone like trocar style tip. I've shot Rocky Mountain Gators 2" 2 blade with the trocar tip for years and never not had a pass thru.The bad news isa couple years ago Rocky Mountain changed their tip design to a blade style like the Rage.[:@]

RE: A thought on the Great "RAGE" debate.
 

Its almost impossible to tie KE directly to passthroughs because there are a nearly infinite number of variables that come into play with each shot on game. Differnt angles, different situations, different size deer.... the possibilities are endless.

There are guys shooting these things off crossbows and not getting passthroughs on does, then you have guys shooting 60#s and blasting right through deer at 30 yards..... variables.

You'd have to develop an objective test. Set up a number of bows with descending/ascending KE and shoot at a consistant media and measure the penetration. It would take cow hide, 1/8" plywood and probably 7-10" of balistic gel with another piece of 1/8" and cowhide on the other side. Thats about as objective a test as I can think of.

RE: A thought on the Great "RAGE" debate.
 

See I think the problem is the angle of the blades in the fully open position.Rather than slicing through tissue, barely obtuse angle with respect to the ferrel the 2-blade Rage's have give a "snow plow" effect.

Someone in the first thread made the comparison of cutting a steak by pushing down with a knife vs slicing through it..... perfect example IMO.

If they would make the entire head LONGER, and make the angle more obtuse, I think you'd see fewer folks talking about not having passthroughs.

RE: A thought on the Great "RAGE" debate.
 

My thoughts exactly! One thought comes to mind! If there is this much debate on a broadhead, then it seems to me that this is a BH I want to stay away from.

RE: A thought on the Great "RAGE" debate.
 

OMG... there's a Great Rage Debate??? I'm sorry I missed it. Having always frowned on mechanicals I find it odd that all the great Ragers are debating. LOL Let's put it this way. Of the last 40 or 50 deer I've shot with a fixed broadhead(whether Tunderhead, Shuttle T or whatever) I only remember onethat was aNOT pass thru... that got hung up in the off shoulder and broke. The rest have just done their job. Maybe I need a 1000 grain arrow?[8D] My nephew buggered one up Saturday whenhis mechanicalskidded along the ribs or something and screwed it up. I don't think extra weight is necessarily the answer. With weight you loose speed and probably end up back where you started. With a fixed..... it really doesn't matter as long as you're tuned.;)

RE: A thought on the Great "RAGE" debate.
 

460 grain arrow at 286fps out of my Guardian

4 for 4 on pass thrus with Rage.

RE: A thought on the Great "RAGE" debate.
 

I agree but not completely. I've been shooting cut on contact BH's for 24 years, here's my experience with them. It really depends on the angle, toughness and design of your cut on contact BH on whether your going to be able to penetrate bone decent or not. Not Included In this discussion Is the knuckle In the shoulder, that's Impossible to penetrate! My old 125 grain 2 blade bear razors with bleeders did pretty good on hitting ribs square entering and exiting and on one occasion I hit the off side leg and busted It In 2 pieces. I then switched up BH's being bear changed there design on the points of the BH's, they rounded/squared It some and I didn't care for It being I figured It would rob me of penetration. I switched up to a 125 grain 2 blade with bleeders Satellite Titan. It didn't take long to figure out that thing was junk, the ferrul would bend when hitting good bone or squaring ribs once In a while so I only used them for 3 years until they were all used up (didn't take long being they would bend when target practicing with them). From them I went to a 3 blade head and It's the same BH I'm using yet today. In my opinion It's the best piece of equipment on my bow. I shoot a 125 grain 3 blade Magnus Snuffer. It's tough, the angles are great, and the tip Is crazy sharp (cut on contact). I've hit 2 shoulder blades with It, didn't stop them a bit. Many many times I've squared both ribs solid In the middle of them and blew right on through the animal. This Is a 3 blade BH, that's saying something If there doing what I just said. My sister In law pulls 45lbs back with her compound, she shoots this same exact BH and had her's do a complete pass through on her one and only deer. Another friend of mine's g/f had the same very thing happen this year on a doe. Same BH set up, even less pounds (38lbs) and she also blew on through with a 3 blade Snuffer. Like I said earlier, It's all about the angle, toughness and design of your cut on contact BH. A good design will get It done hands down (even with bone).

RE: A thought on the Great "RAGE" debate.
 

What's your arrow weight and speed, Schultzy?

RE: A thought on the Great "RAGE" debate.
 

Arrow weight- 561 grains.
fps- 210.

RE: A thought on the Great "RAGE" debate.
 

I am shooting A hoyt PowerTec at 65# with a 29.5" draw. Havent had it chronoed, but it calculates to 256 fps. My arrow weighs 484 grains, so my KE is 70.53.