cutting diameter
11-09-2008, 11:27 AM
#11
Fork Horn
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 150
RE: cutting diameter
I think all the cutting diameters are overated period. Im pretty sure a field point throught the heart would kill a deer just as dead as a 2" diameter. (just harder to track and less gory.)
11-09-2008, 11:51 AM
#12
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 131
RE: cutting diameter
ORIGINAL: annika3
This has been gone over numerous times before but heare we go again.
Cutting diameter = the size of the wound channel
Cutting surface = the amount of damage within the wound channel (see above)
What's more important? That, I guess, is open for debate but think about it this way.
Lets take 3 Bh's and compare.
Slick Trick Standard:
1" Cutting diameter
2" Cutting surface
This means you will get 2" of surface cutting damage within a 1" cutting area
Rage 2-blade
2" Cutting diameter
2" Cutting surface
This means you will get 2" of cutting surface within a 2" cutting area
Broadhead xyz
1" Cutting diameter
4" Cutting surface (8 blades)
This means you will get 4" of cutting surface within a 1" cutting area
Example 1 and 3 both give you a 1" cutting area but by simply adding more blades example 3 has 4" of cutting surface. Does this make this head superior to example 1? According to what you are saying your answer should be yes. But in each bh example you are still obtaining the same 1" cutting diameter.
Comparingexamples 1 and 2 you are getting a much larger wound channel(cutting diameter)in example 2 (Rage) and they same amount of damage (cutting surface) as example1(Slick Trick). The big difference is that with the Slick Trick all the damage is occuring in a small 1" wound channel compared to the 2" wound channel of the Rage.
This has been gone over numerous times before but heare we go again.
Cutting diameter = the size of the wound channel
Cutting surface = the amount of damage within the wound channel (see above)
What's more important? That, I guess, is open for debate but think about it this way.
Lets take 3 Bh's and compare.
Slick Trick Standard:
1" Cutting diameter
2" Cutting surface
This means you will get 2" of surface cutting damage within a 1" cutting area
Rage 2-blade
2" Cutting diameter
2" Cutting surface
This means you will get 2" of cutting surface within a 2" cutting area
Broadhead xyz
1" Cutting diameter
4" Cutting surface (8 blades)
This means you will get 4" of cutting surface within a 1" cutting area
Example 1 and 3 both give you a 1" cutting area but by simply adding more blades example 3 has 4" of cutting surface. Does this make this head superior to example 1? According to what you are saying your answer should be yes. But in each bh example you are still obtaining the same 1" cutting diameter.
Comparingexamples 1 and 2 you are getting a much larger wound channel(cutting diameter)in example 2 (Rage) and they same amount of damage (cutting surface) as example1(Slick Trick). The big difference is that with the Slick Trick all the damage is occuring in a small 1" wound channel compared to the 2" wound channel of the Rage.
Excellent points......
I'll add one more thing into the mix. The possibility of mechanical failure. Some human/hunter caused and other Mfg caused. I've seen a fair amount of posts on some other forums about Rage using pins vs screws.
Now I'm not saying that theRage BH's aren't a good BH. Everyone knows that they have killed alot of deer. But the same can be said for alot of fixed BH's. God only knows how many deer fell to Flint or Obsidian.
The difference is that flint didn't have a commercial running every 10 min on theOutdoor channel.And if you think that advertising hype doesn't make a difference.......................... then maybe you really do think Obama is more qualified to be president than any other citizen. [:'(]
11-09-2008, 01:32 PM
#13
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 721
RE: cutting diameter
ORIGINAL: Northport buckslayr
I am still not convinced that you get more blood and damage with a two blade rage than a MUzzy MX-4, or a slick trick magnum. Why is it better to have the cutting area made thinner and longer? I think its just advertising.
I am still not convinced that you get more blood and damage with a two blade rage than a MUzzy MX-4, or a slick trick magnum. Why is it better to have the cutting area made thinner and longer? I think its just advertising.
) for the better part of 8 years and have also tried different fixed heads as well. The 2 blade 2"expandable without a doubt causes more bleeding and much better blood trail provided you are shooting enough speed and a heavy enough arrow to get consistent pass-throughs. The single straight 2 inch cut seems to open them up much more than a 3 or 4 blade which creates flaps that seem to close up easier. Quite honestly I've never had a fixed blade blood trail that compares to the Gator blood trail. Look at the pic and tell me which looks likewould bleeds better, the gaping hole of the Gator on the bottom or the healed up Montec 3 blade fixed blade hole from a complete pass thru 10 days prior which can be seen above the Gator hole? I honestly couldn't imagine the Gator/Rage style hole being able to close and heal up at all.
Of course shot placement had everything to do with this specific deer not being mortally wounded from the first shot, but the photo should show the substantial difference in wound channels between the two heads you are comparing.
11-09-2008, 02:26 PM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Allegany County Maryland
Posts: 1,977
RE: cutting diameter
ORIGINAL: IAhuntr
From the wording of your statement, it sounds as though you haven't used bothand had a personalhands on comparison. I've shot the RM Gators (2 blade much like aRage, but without the all the hype ) for the better part of 8 years and have also tried different fixed heads as well. The 2 blade 2"expandable without a doubt causes more bleeding and much better blood trail provided you are shooting enough speed and a heavy enough arrow to get consistent pass-throughs. The single straight 2 inch cut seems to open them up much more than a 3 or 4 blade which creates flaps that seem to close up easier. Quite honestly I've never had a fixed blade blood trail that compares to the Gator blood trail.
Look at the pic and tell me which looks likewould bleeds better, the gaping hole of the Gator on the bottom or the healed up Montec 3 blade fixed blade hole from a complete pass thru 10 days prior which can be seen above the Gator hole? I honestly couldn't imagine the Gator/Rage style hole being able to close and heal up at all.
Of course shot placement had everything to do with this specific deer not being mortally wounded from the first shot, but the photo should show the substantial difference in wound channels between the two heads you are comparing.
ORIGINAL: Northport buckslayr
I am still not convinced that you get more blood and damage with a two blade rage than a MUzzy MX-4, or a slick trick magnum. Why is it better to have the cutting area made thinner and longer? I think its just advertising.
I am still not convinced that you get more blood and damage with a two blade rage than a MUzzy MX-4, or a slick trick magnum. Why is it better to have the cutting area made thinner and longer? I think its just advertising.
) for the better part of 8 years and have also tried different fixed heads as well. The 2 blade 2"expandable without a doubt causes more bleeding and much better blood trail provided you are shooting enough speed and a heavy enough arrow to get consistent pass-throughs. The single straight 2 inch cut seems to open them up much more than a 3 or 4 blade which creates flaps that seem to close up easier. Quite honestly I've never had a fixed blade blood trail that compares to the Gator blood trail. Look at the pic and tell me which looks likewould bleeds better, the gaping hole of the Gator on the bottom or the healed up Montec 3 blade fixed blade hole from a complete pass thru 10 days prior which can be seen above the Gator hole? I honestly couldn't imagine the Gator/Rage style hole being able to close and heal up at all.
Of course shot placement had everything to do with this specific deer not being mortally wounded from the first shot, but the photo should show the substantial difference in wound channels between the two heads you are comparing.
I gotta question?? How in the world did that deer live through that first shot??? Wow.. Im not sure but from this angle it looks like it should have been high double lung???
11-09-2008, 02:42 PM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
RE: cutting diameter
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
Both wounds are going to cut completely through you.
Both wounds are going to cut completely through you.
Personally though... I wouldn't care to stand infront of either of them, and if you shot me in the right place, I'm sure I'd lay down and die just as dead no matter which you chose.
11-09-2008, 02:46 PM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Jacksonville, IL/ Huntington, WV
Posts: 1,573
RE: cutting diameter
ORIGINAL: WesternMdHardwoods
I gotta question?? How in the world did that deer live through that first shot??? Wow.. Im not sure but from this angle it looks like it should have been high double lung???
ORIGINAL: IAhuntr
From the wording of your statement, it sounds as though you haven't used bothand had a personalhands on comparison. I've shot the RM Gators (2 blade much like aRage, but without the all the hype ) for the better part of 8 years and have also tried different fixed heads as well. The 2 blade 2"expandable without a doubt causes more bleeding and much better blood trail provided you are shooting enough speed and a heavy enough arrow to get consistent pass-throughs. The single straight 2 inch cut seems to open them up much more than a 3 or 4 blade which creates flaps that seem to close up easier. Quite honestly I've never had a fixed blade blood trail that compares to the Gator blood trail.
Look at the pic and tell me which looks likewould bleeds better, the gaping hole of the Gator on the bottom or the healed up Montec 3 blade fixed blade hole from a complete pass thru 10 days prior which can be seen above the Gator hole? I honestly couldn't imagine the Gator/Rage style hole being able to close and heal up at all.
Of course shot placement had everything to do with this specific deer not being mortally wounded from the first shot, but the photo should show the substantial difference in wound channels between the two heads you are comparing.
ORIGINAL: Northport buckslayr
I am still not convinced that you get more blood and damage with a two blade rage than a MUzzy MX-4, or a slick trick magnum. Why is it better to have the cutting area made thinner and longer? I think its just advertising.
I am still not convinced that you get more blood and damage with a two blade rage than a MUzzy MX-4, or a slick trick magnum. Why is it better to have the cutting area made thinner and longer? I think its just advertising.
) for the better part of 8 years and have also tried different fixed heads as well. The 2 blade 2"expandable without a doubt causes more bleeding and much better blood trail provided you are shooting enough speed and a heavy enough arrow to get consistent pass-throughs. The single straight 2 inch cut seems to open them up much more than a 3 or 4 blade which creates flaps that seem to close up easier. Quite honestly I've never had a fixed blade blood trail that compares to the Gator blood trail. Look at the pic and tell me which looks likewould bleeds better, the gaping hole of the Gator on the bottom or the healed up Montec 3 blade fixed blade hole from a complete pass thru 10 days prior which can be seen above the Gator hole? I honestly couldn't imagine the Gator/Rage style hole being able to close and heal up at all.
Of course shot placement had everything to do with this specific deer not being mortally wounded from the first shot, but the photo should show the substantial difference in wound channels between the two heads you are comparing.
I gotta question?? How in the world did that deer live through that first shot??? Wow.. Im not sure but from this angle it looks like it should have been high double lung???
11-09-2008, 03:05 PM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Allegany County Maryland
Posts: 1,977
RE: cutting diameter
ORIGINAL: goherd1111
To not havebeen afatal shot and to have been a complete pass through, the first shot would have had to be above the spine and through the backstraps. The spine is lower that alot of people realize.
To not havebeen afatal shot and to have been a complete pass through, the first shot would have had to be above the spine and through the backstraps. The spine is lower that alot of people realize.
11-09-2008, 06:42 PM
#19
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 721
RE: cutting diameter
Yeah, the shot is quite the conversation piece. Some of you may remember this deer from last year.I took himlast seasonbut he waswas shot by my brother in law 10 days earlier and survived.Actuallythe pass thruwas rightbelow and partially nickedthe spine butsuprisingly onlybarely clipped the top of one lung. He had initally dropped to the ground, but after a few seconds regained his senses and jumped up and ran off.In normal circumstances the lungs extend up high enough on both sides of the spine where it should have been a double lung, but perhaps due to his ducking the shot and exhaling while doing so, only one lung was clipped. Maybe he was a smoker! In any case, there was a visible wound channel in the chest cavity just below the spineupon field dressing and one lung was pale with a bit of clot at the top. He was remarkably well healed for only 10 days.
I hadencountered him just +7 days after the first shot chasing does. At +10 days he came into a grunt call all bristled up looking to fight. I'd have tospeculatethat 99.9% of the time the first shot would have been lethal. We were both quite happy he didn't run off and die and I was able to get another crack at him. We were also in disbelief that he survived.
The hole on the opposite side is a bit higher than the exit wound pictured, buta deers spine is low in his neck but not so much in his body:
I hadencountered him just +7 days after the first shot chasing does. At +10 days he came into a grunt call all bristled up looking to fight. I'd have tospeculatethat 99.9% of the time the first shot would have been lethal. We were both quite happy he didn't run off and die and I was able to get another crack at him. We were also in disbelief that he survived.
The hole on the opposite side is a bit higher than the exit wound pictured, buta deers spine is low in his neck but not so much in his body:
11-09-2008, 06:50 PM
#20
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Allegany County Maryland
Posts: 1,977
RE: cutting diameter
ORIGINAL: IAhuntr
Yeah, the shot is quite the conversation piece. Some of you may remember this deer from last year.I took himlast seasonbut he waswas shot by my brother in law 10 days earlier and survived.Actuallythe pass thruwas rightbelow and partially nickedthe spine butsuprisingly onlybarely clipped the top of one lung. He had initally dropped to the ground, but after a few seconds regained his senses and jumped up and ran off.In normal circumstances the lungs extend up high enough on both sides of the spine where it should have been a double lung, but perhaps due to his ducking the shot and exhaling while doing so, only one lung was clipped. Maybe he was a smoker! In any case, there was a visible wound channel in the chest cavity just below the spineupon field dressing and one lung was pale with a bit of clot at the top. He was remarkably well healed for only 10 days.
I hadencountered him just +7 days after the first shot chasing does. At +10 days he came into a grunt call all bristled up looking to fight. I'd have tospeculatethat 99.9% of the time the first shot would have been lethal. We were both quite happy he didn't run off and die and I was able to get another crack at him. We were also in disbelief that he survived.
The hole on the opposite side is a bit higher than the exit wound pictured, buta deers spine is low in his neck but not so much in his body:
Yeah, the shot is quite the conversation piece. Some of you may remember this deer from last year.I took himlast seasonbut he waswas shot by my brother in law 10 days earlier and survived.Actuallythe pass thruwas rightbelow and partially nickedthe spine butsuprisingly onlybarely clipped the top of one lung. He had initally dropped to the ground, but after a few seconds regained his senses and jumped up and ran off.In normal circumstances the lungs extend up high enough on both sides of the spine where it should have been a double lung, but perhaps due to his ducking the shot and exhaling while doing so, only one lung was clipped. Maybe he was a smoker! In any case, there was a visible wound channel in the chest cavity just below the spineupon field dressing and one lung was pale with a bit of clot at the top. He was remarkably well healed for only 10 days.
I hadencountered him just +7 days after the first shot chasing does. At +10 days he came into a grunt call all bristled up looking to fight. I'd have tospeculatethat 99.9% of the time the first shot would have been lethal. We were both quite happy he didn't run off and die and I was able to get another crack at him. We were also in disbelief that he survived.
The hole on the opposite side is a bit higher than the exit wound pictured, buta deers spine is low in his neck but not so much in his body:
Yeah I just know if I would have made that first shot and couldnt find the deer I would be standing in the woods like this.....
[&o]!!!