Difference in a year......
 

I started out this season having gained access to new lands....and trying to get away from seeing so many does. So far....it seems to be working.

I sat my 48th sit, this morning. That matches last year's total (hunts)..and I thought I'd give a comparison to the change up in what I was looking for (new strategy).

'07 - Through 48 sits - I had seen, from stand -- 207 deer; 132 does; 17 bucks; 48 fawns (these numbers are based on total sightings....knowing that the same deer were sighted multiple times in many instances)

'08 - Through 48 sits - I have seen, from stand -- 111 deer; 46 does; 21 bucks; 43 fawns (same criteria as '07 for sightings)

Couple things this brings to mind....

Early season....I target does. If I choose to abandon this next year....I expect even these reduced doe/fawn sightings to go down, drastically. I also have to wonder if the dent we took out in doe harvests last year aided in these reduced sightings. It'll be interesting to see how this goes.

In '06 I averaged seeing abaout > 7 deer per sit. That lowered to < 4.5 in '08. So far, this year, it's about < 2.5. I'm fine with seeing less "deer".....but I'd still like for my buck sightings to go up. I think I can make that happen....."if" the state doesn't throw us NC bowhunters a BIG, HUGE curveball, nest year. The proposal on the table for '09 is to have only a FOUR WEEK "bow only" season...followed by ML for 2 weeks.....and then to open rifle season until the season is over. My initial shock and response is.....I may hunt WAYYYyyyy less next year. I just don't have it in me to hunt deer that have been pressured to no end basically from the get-go. It might be over for bowhunting as I have known it to be, here.

If you're from NC.....and you've heard the same rumblings from the NCWRC.....I'd like to hear your thoughts on the proposal and what you've "heard".

RE: Difference in a year......
 

Ive heard the same thing. Hunting will get harder. I don't mind 2 weeks of ML. Lot's of people dont bother hunting ML. I can't really say I like it or don't like it. Id like to see what happens after a couple of years of it and harvest numbers vs sitings vs a deer census numbers. If anything I would like to see NC go to one buck only. I would like to hunt til Jan 1 here, but I dont want to see NC go to the wayside like SC has.

I will say I did get busted saturday and look forward to muzzleloading season so if a doe continues to blow at me for 10min I can 'shut her up'.

RE: Difference in a year......
 

The proposal on the board won't go through, there are too many opositions. Even if it does, the majority of my properties are small enough and the surrounding props are small enough that they won't even consider rifle hunting. The only real way for the WC to increase revenue and control the deer population is for them to open Sunday hunting, if you may have noticed it has been coming up more frequently the past few years. I have talked to a few people that the consideration right now is for Sunday hunting after noon with bow on private land. The rumors, that I hear, have been coming from a few people that have "feelers" in the WC. So all we can do is see how much money the WC is willing to loose. When they look at it from a business standpoint, Sunday hunting is the only real logical decision.

RE: Difference in a year......
 

How does that differ form what you had this season? That sounds similiar to what it normally isfor me except where I have hunted in NC there is only 1 week BP at the end of the 6 week bow season.

I have heard they were doing away with split seasons and just making one season which you can hunt with whatever you want, but that was just random gossip I heard I haven't looked into it much yet.

RE: Difference in a year......
 

I just worry that it may work too well. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry with 30 acres shooting every deer they see. I know it's not possible and in some places it's good, but I know there are places in WNC that could use a little management TLC to boost their numbers.

RE: Difference in a year......
 

IF this rifle thing goes through.....I'll be sharing my newly acquired land with 3 others instead of 1 other for the biggest majority of the season (and the best part of it). I simply won't go in there with that many slugs flying.....and the adjacent property (where they bed, for the most part) will see hunters from ML on.

It's just not worth it to me to sit in the line of fire to hunt pressured deer for the vast majority of the season. I'll either drop back and hunt the small parcels I've hunted int he past (bow only....and I'm the only one on it)....or I'll look to lease some land....if I can find some close by.

How do they think this is going to do anything other than result in more bucks being taken? We already kill more bucks than does in this state.....and we have a seemingly unrestricted doe harvest at our disposal, now. If they'd go to an EAB situation with ML and rifle (hell Bow, too!) where we had to take 2 does before we could take a buck.....and 1 more before we could take another buck.....I'd be all for the change. If it goes through with no real changes (other than the season for ML and rifle coming in sooner).....I think the harvest numbers on bucks is gonna be off the charts. Every horned deer will have an even bigger target on his back.....because it'll be there, longer.

It differs because I've been bowhunting since 9/13......and ML doesn't come in until 11/15. I've had two full months of bowhunting without having to worry about getting shot in the woods......or having to worry about the deer I'm hunting being pressured into the next county.

RE: Difference in a year......
 

Is that the main change, rifles instead of shotgun only?

RE: Difference in a year......
 

As far as I know....NC doesn't have a season for shotguns. They can be used only in the rifle season.

RE: Difference in a year......
 

I see, the area I hunt in NCgun season started Oct. 18 that's why it didn't seem much different to me.

RE: Difference in a year......
 

That's exactly how it is in VA where I hunt. Oct is bow...m/l came in on Nov 1st....now guns will bang till early January.

In WV they don't have the early m/l season yet, I suspect it may come some day. We usually get about 5-6 weeks of bow there...archery comes in later there - mid Oct[&:]

You'll make do...and the deer will too, they adapt for sure....but I notice them being ALOT more on edge once the guns get crackin.

RE: Difference in a year......
 

I agree Jeff. I think honestly think NC is making a come back as far as big deer go. It seems that more and more people are letting smaller deer walk. I think a longer gun season in our state will erase what good has been done towards limiting the bucks harvested. I would also like to see EAB come into play. A doe for every buck you harvest, or unlimited does.

RE: Difference in a year......
 

I may be reading it wrong, but can you not bow hunt during the rifle season there?

RE: Difference in a year......
 

You can, but from what I understand, theyre wanting to make it to where you can use weapon of choice on private land once any deer season opens in NC....I.E. Bow opens up on 9/13...if youre on private land you can use a rifle on PRIVATE LAND, not PUBLIC. Thats hear-say from what I heard.

RE: Difference in a year......
 

wow i feel bad for u guys we get 4 months of bow here in ohio and only 10 days shotgun and 3 days ML Not including early ML in select areas

RE: Difference in a year......
 

Gmmat
Are you allowed to hunt all the seasons with bow? If so and your so worried about being shot like I used to be[:@]. Make the slight change that rifle hunters won't, as most are lazy and won't walk into the deep woods. Find the bedding area's and sit till they make their mistake. I have found this very rewarding. Scent is the biggest difference here as once a bedded buck of any size scents you ,he's outa there for some time. Good luck team mate and bear with the law changesas they are not always for the best ,but we as hunter's, need to adjust.[X(]
Rocky

RE: Difference in a year......
 

We can bowhunt here all through the open seasons (the entire "deer" season). We're just hunting skittish deer from the opener of ML on through. We're also in harm's way on a lot of properties......and I will be on the new property I hunt. I was already going to mostly abandon those grounds for the bowhunting only lands I already had, anyways. Maybe I'll get some of those deer pushed to me, here? Who knows? I just know I don't like the sounds of it one bit. I'll lose out on some PRIME terrain. It's hard enough to keep tabs on one other bowhunter on 150acres. Add in him NOW hunting with a rifle.....and 2 other rifle hunters.....and I'd fear for my life on some of these ridges. I don't think I wanna keep up with where three others are all the time.

I do have some little pockets of land that I don't think they know exist (or haven't thought of them for hunting). I may be able to salvage those spots. ALL of these guys will be baiting, too. That won't bode well for me in any circumstance I wouldn't think (since I don't emply the practice as a general rule.....and I've never killed a deer over bait).

Might mmake early season scouting a bigger priority.....and make my early season hunting more aggressive, too. Maybe that isn't so bad......but the spot I hit that deer in Friday.....I'd been saving the entire season. First time I'd been in there was Friday. Next year (if this passes)...I'll be forced to hunt it more aggressively.

RE: Difference in a year......
 

We have it similar in Tx. One month of bow only and then 2 months of general season in which you can use rifle, ML, or bow. Pressure on deer increases 10 fold during the first weekend in November. Despite 2 all day sits this weekend I didn't see a deer.

RE: Difference in a year......
 

I could very well react the same way in your shoes....But if I was complaining about deer numbers and ratios while making a conscious effort to correct this by bagging a LOT of does each year, I would find it kind of hypocritical to complain when the DNR tries to aid in getting the numbers in check.

Bowhunters will never be able to effectively put a dent in a population as a group, it takes the orange army to do this. Sounds to me like your DNR is trying to curb the deer numbers by allowing the group of people, who really do the damage when it comes to numbers killed, to hunt longer. Shouldn't you rejoice in that the DNR is joining you in your struggle?

RE: Difference in a year......
 

Well, "their" way isn't working, either. In case you overlooked it.....we (as a state) STILL kill more bucks than does. I don't see this getting any better with a prolonged gun season (the ratio). I could be pleasantly surprised, but I highly doubt it.

If it's all bout the does.....why not open up the "early" gun seasons to does, only?

Our NCWRC doesn't care about ratios. They care about one thing......harvest numbers. They're gonna get that.....and I'm betting the ratio of bucks:does killed goes up even further (with the deficit being in the doe kills).

RE: Difference in a year......
 

I totally agree with your last post Jeff. I'm from the eastern part of the state (where the buck limit is 4) and guys I know over there key on bucks almost exclusively. The only time they get excited about shooting a doe is when they have a "doe pot". Everyone puts in 'x' amount of money and the guy who kills the heaviest doe gets all the money. They have asked me to rejoin a club I was a member of back in the late 80's and early 90's but I will never join back because their herd is so out of whack.

I too agree that people will not change their views on doe harvest. Heck, even my own dad doesn't agree with me when we talk (argue) about it. Since moving to central NC (1993) I have become more of a bowhunter, but I still ML and rifle hunt to some extent.

My vote would be to change thebag limit to one buck per season and unlimited does. The only problem with this is all the people whodon't tag their deer.

RE: Difference in a year......
 

Fair enough, it just seems from your descriptions that overall deer numbers are too high, regardless of antlers or not. More gun hunting= more population control. Like you say though, more things could be done as far as ratios go, such as doe only seasons and such.

I dont think a prolonged gun season will increase buck to doe kill ratios...in fact, it may have the exact opposite effect...think about it, you are a gun hunter, and you have 2 weeks to kill a deer...are you going to be very selective? Give the same guy 1 month to hunt and he may begin to start letting smaller deer pass since he isnt in a time crunch to get it done.

Whether hunters kill does for meat instead of small bucks isnt in the seasons, it is the attitude of the hunting masses. If, like TreedNC said, hunters are beginning to come around and the numbers arechanging, this is due to a change inhunters attitude...These guys will most likely not reverse this attitude simply because they have longer hunting seasons.


Just trying to look at the glass as half full, i can see this being beneficial to your Deer numbers, only time will tell though.

RE: Difference in a year......
 

I wouldnt say everywhere....and I havent read the record books, but Id say most of the people I know or know peoplethat know people(you get the idea) are being more selective. I dont know for sure, seems like more and more big deer killed in NC according to the mags.

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I think giving the unlimited number of does is a step in the right direction but I also believe it has to be backed up by a better restriction on bucks. You just simply cannot have a 4 buck limit of any size, hunt from Sept-Jan 1 and expect to have mature bucks running around. Insurance agencies are complaining to the wildlife dept. about accidents but most of the time a deer that has been hit by a car is a doe. The only way we are going to get people to kill more does is to limit the number/size or both on the bucks you can kill. If you want more/bigger/better bucks you must mirror season bag limits of states that are producing more/bigger/better bucks. Alot of guys will still pick out that 1.5 yr old 6 pt. with a 12" spread in a field with 15 does in it...why not? he still has 3 buck tags left to get a bigger buck. PLEASE DON'T GET ME WRONG...there is nothing wrong with shooting a 1.5 yr old 6 pt. BUT if you want bigger bucks they must walk.

RE: Difference in a year......
 

Well said Wolfpack.....Id like to see it 1 buck a year, unlimited does, earn the one buck you get with a doe kill (even tho I shot mine on opening day lol) and youth 15 and under are omitted. I think a lot of it has to do with the numbers on small parcels like myself that have the "if I dont kill it, somebody else will" mentality.

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If I had a 2buck limit I would have still shot the 8 pt that I shot in Sept ( which I spent almost 1 hr. typing that story and loading pics earlier today before this stupid computer kicked me offline)BUT if I had a 1 buck limit or earn a buck programI would not have shot him. I had not had a shot opportunity at a doe at that time and I know there are larger bucks in the same general area. I also don't typically shoot does during November.

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1 buck only. Unlimited amount of doe tags. Allow Sunday hunting. What would be so hard about that?

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Wolfpack you guys in the eastern deer season are the only ones allowed to take 4 bucks. The rest of the state can take two, but I wish it was only one.

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It isnt that big of a difference to me as well, because we have an early muzzleloader and gun season. I dont reallly know what to think of our WRC, you would think they would follow in the footsteps of other successful states to manage our herd better :eek:

There has been a difference, but not much of one. I was seeing a lot of dinks last year and I only saw one shooter during bow season, this year however I decreased my dink sightings, have seen two shooters, and still seeing a ton of does [:'(]I am gonna take em out next year, NO MERCY

RE: Difference in a year......
 

I will probably switch to a rifle at least once a week when Dec. gets here and start my doe thinning. I still kind of like to wait until the last minute of the dayjust in case ole big boy steps out to get a bite to eat;) I like to shoot does early (Sept. and early Oct.) and then late season. No does for me in the last of Oct. and November.

RE: Difference in a year......
 

I believe I averaged seeing 1 deer every 2-3 sits last year. I had around 30 hunts last year. I only saw 3 bucks, and around 15 doe.

This year I have hunted 12-14 times and have seen 5 does and 8 bucks. I saw three this morning when I only saw 3 all of last year. Only one shooter so far, but no shot.