Determining the right binocs
 

Could someone explain what are better binoculars? I don't understand what the numbers all mean. Such as , are 10x42 better than 8x30. What exactly does the 10 mean? and the 42? And then the FOV numbers at 1000 yards are all different. Interpretations of these number meanings would be appreciated.

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

10 would be the magnification and 42 the objective diameter. Just like a 3-9x40 scope has a variable magnification from 3x to 9x and an objective diameter of 40 mm.

As far as what would be best for you, it depends on your hunting situation. 10x42 is a really popular choice and it is what I use, but when i am looking through them, I am looking at something a quite a ways away, say 100-1000 yards. If I hunted in thick timber, I would use something with less power.

I don't really know why Field of View is different on binocs of the same power and objective, but generally the larger the FOV, the better.

Hope that helps ya and I am sure some others will go further in depth and maybe correct my mistakes!

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

10 X 42 are perfect for me, Great at long and sort distances.

For example as rimjob said the first number is the "zoom" the 10 makes things 10 times closer to you. the second number is the diameter of the opposite side from what you look through. The bigger the diameter the bulkier the bino's, but also the wider field of view you have with more light being gathered. 42mm is a great median. IMO

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

With the field of view available to me in my woods.....I like the 8X42's. Great size.....and if you're looking for a great pair....I'd suggest the ATB's by Nikon.

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

Vortex 8.5x50s are perfect IMO, but I havent used them extensively.

Same size/weight as alot of 8x42/10x42s, but 100x better during lowlight. I also like the lesser power of 8.5 than my dads 10x and 12x binocs.

50mm lets in more light, thus being able to see better in darker situations. Difference between them and 42mm are neglible in 99% of situations though IMO.

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

10x42's work for me...... it works for hunting in timber or hunting where u can see around 400 yards .. ....i would recommend the swarovskis or the leicas as i have both models and love them

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

So which is it? 100X.....really?

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

[:-]relentless...

Those quotes dont contradict. 99% of the time, it isn't low enough light to matter one way or the other. at high noon 25 mm are plenty bright. But at the few minutes before and after dark (that 1% of the time), the bigger the better. In this case, 50mm is bigger than 42mm;). Weight and size is non factor, so why not go bigger.

100x, meh, maybe not. But I dont have a lab to discern the exact amount. For the hairsplitters of HNI, ill change it to 10x better. Just personal observations comparing a set of 8x42, 10x42, 12x50, and my 8.5x50.

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

That;s cool....but I was wondering how big of a mistake I made....lol.

90X is a pretty large hair.;)

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

Here is some good info, comes from the cabelas website, under Buyers Guide:



Binocular Buyer's Guide and Glossary

By: Mark Mazour


One of the handiest things to have in the outdoors is a quality pair of binoculars. Whether you are hiking, viewing wildlife, hunting, or even at a sporting event, binoculars can bring the outdoors a little closer to you.

Binoculars come in handy to survey the terrain ahead, scout for and view wildlife without spooking them, or just enjoy a piece of nature up close that you may have otherwise missed. Starting off by selecting the right pair is crucial to your enjoyment of the outdoors.

Basically, binoculars do two main things for you. They increase the size of the image you are viewing, and they let in more light than your eyes can, making images appear brighter in low light conditions. When you first start looking for binoculars, it can be confusing comparing one model to another.

Power, Field of View and Exit Pupil [ul][*]Power: The first main comparison used in binoculars is power. Binocular powers are expressed as two numbers such as 8 x 42. The first number, 8 in this example, is the magnification. It expresses the magnification as a factor compared to the naked eye. So an 8 power magnifies the objects in view up to 8 times. An object would appear to be 8 times closer than it would with the naked eye. Therefore, a higher number has a greater magnification.

The second number, 42 in this example, is the diameter of the objective lens in millimeters. So a 42 designation means that the outer lens is 42 mm in diameter. A larger number indicates a larger lens. Large lenses are more bulky, but they also let in more light, making your image clearer - especially in low light conditions.[*]FOV @ 1000 yards: FOV is the second most used comparison with binoculars, and it stands for Field of View. What this means is how wide of an area (in ft.) that you can view through the binoculars at 1000 yards. A higher number indicates a wider area, while a smaller number indicates a narrower area. The focal length of the objective lenses and the eyepiece design has the most impact on the actual FOV. The power of the binoculars also has an inverse relationship with FOV. As the magnification increases, a smaller FOV results.

Your choice of FOV depends on your individual use of the binoculars. If you are using them in a wide-open area to scan for mule deer, a narrower field of view is not a big deal. However, if you are scanning a dense forest for hidden black-tailed deer at ranges at or around 100 yards, you will want to select a model that has a wider field of view.[*]Exit Pupil: Exit pupil is related to the power of the binocular and the size of the objective lens. If you hold a pair of binoculars away from your face, you will see a small circle of bright light in the eyepiece. This is the exit pupil, the size of the beam of light that leaves the binocular. The exit pupil diameter can easily be calculated (in mm) by dividing the diameter of the objective lens by the power. Therefore, a 8x42 binocular has an exit pupil of 5.25mm. On a bright day, the human pupil will vary from 2mm at noon to 4mm later in the day. When your eyes become adapted to dark conditions, the pupil will vary from around 5mm to a maximum of 9mm.

In daylight, having a binocular with a larger exit pupil will have little effect. The only difference you may notice is that you will be able to move a binocular with a larger exit pupil and still maintain the image, which is extremely helpful if you are in unstable conditions, such as in a boat. The main difference occurs in low light conditions. If you plan on using your binoculars near dawn or dusk, which is a time when many hunters depend on their optics, it is recommended that you select an exit pupil greater than 4mm, to fully take advantage of the amount of light your eyes can let in. An exit pupil larger than your pupil's diameter at the time does not result in a brighter image. Your eye can only handle so much.

You can see from the exit pupil calculation that if you choose a higher power binocular, you will also need to increase the size of the objective to maintain the same diameter of light leaving the binocular. [/ul] Prisms
As light passes through a pair of binoculars, the image becomes inverted. Erecting prisms are used within the binoculars to correct this problem. The two main types you will find in binoculars are Roof and Porro Prisms. [ul][*]A Roof Prism design reflects the light 5 times, and the resultant light comes out on the same line that it came in on. This straight through design lends itself to slimmer dimensions, a more compact body, and usually, lighter weight, as the objective lens is in direct line with the eyepiece. In general, roof prisms cost more, due to the difficulty of manufacture.[*]A Porro Prism binocular requires a bit larger body than a roof prism as the light is only reflected 4 times, and it comes out on a different line than it enters the objective. From a side view, the objective lens is usually a small distance above the eyepiece. Many people debate about which design is better, and it actually depends more on the glass quality, manufacturing tolerances, and individual design as to which delivers the best image. Within Porro prisms, two different types of glass are used, BK-7 and BAK-4.

[*]BK-7 utilizes boro-silicate glass, while BAK-4 uses barium crown glass. The BAK-4 is a finer glass (higher density) and eliminates internal light scattering, therefore producing sharper images than the BK-7 glass. The finer glass in a BAK-4 prism comes at a higher price than ones using BK-7 prisms. [/ul] Optical Coatings
The largest limitation of light transmission in binoculars is reflected light. Any time that light strikes a glass surface, up to 5% of the light can be reflected back. In a pair of binoculars, light can pass through at least 10 different glass surfaces. If you do the math, you can see that it is easy to lose 50% of the ambient light. Plus, much of this reflected light remains inside the binocular causing glare and poor contrast.

However, if a thin chemical film (a common one being Magnesium Fluoride) is used to coat the surface of the glass, much of the reflection can be eliminated. The coating reduces light loss and glare, increases light transmission and results in brighter, clearer images. By coating a surface with multiple films, the effect of the coating is increased, at times limiting the amount of reflected light to between 0.25% and 0.5% per glass surface.

The coating must be applied correctly and uniformly, or the effect is lost. You may also notice that certain coatings exhibit different colors. Contrary to popular belief, this does not have a direct effect on the quality. Depending on the chemicals used and number of coatings, colors can vary from violet to blue, to even red, yellow or green.

While any coating will usually increase the performance of a binocular, you need to understand several different definitions to make a full comparison or justify the expense of a certain model. [ul][*]Coated Optics — Generally means that one or more glass surfaces on at least one lens have received an anti-reflective optical coating.[*]Fully Coated — Generally means that all glass surfaces have been coated with an anti-reflective optical coating.[*]Multi-Coated — Generally means that one or more glass surfaces on at least one lens have received multiple anti-reflective optical coatings.[*]Fully Multi-Coated — Means that all glass surfaces have received multiple anti-reflective optical coatings.[*]Phase Shift Coating — A phase shift coating is used on the Roof Prism of many newer models to correct for light loss on the horizontal image plane. As light waves come through a Roof Prism, up to 70% of the waves reflected off one roof surface will be � a wavelength shifted from those coming off the other roof surface.

Okay, what does that mean? What can happen is that the phase difference between the horizontal and vertical light in a non-coated Roof Prism can cause a loss of contrast. A phase shift coating in upper-end Roof Prism models corrects this, increasing contrast and image quality, putting them on equal playing fields with high end Porro Prism models.

While phase-coated Prisms will provide more contrast than a non-phase-coated pair, the small phase error on non-phase-coated roof prisms can only be detected if all other manufacturing tolerance errors are minimized. In other words, phase coating a cheap pair of Roof Prism binoculars does little to improve the final image. [/ul] Eye Relief
Eye relief is the comfortable distance that a binocular can be held from the eye, while still allowing the viewer to see the entire image. A long eye relief allows for comfortable viewing and is a must for viewing with eyeglasses or sunglasses. Another option to look for is extendable eyepieces or fold down rubber eyecups. These features will allow you to obtain a larger field of view while still keeping your glasses on.


Other Considerations — Size, Weight, Exterior Coating, and Waterproofness
Some other considerations to be aware of are the size and weight of binoculars. While a high powered set of full-size 10 x 42 binoculars may give you some serious range and let in a lot of light, they can weigh almost two pounds or more. The weight will vary with the amount and type of glass used within the binoculars, but in general as power and the size of the objective lens increases, the weight does as well.

If you are packing in a ways, a big pair of binocularscan weigh heavily on your neck or in your pack. Most compact binoculars weigh under a pound and can fit in a shirt pocket, but they do not let in as much light and can be a bit more straining to the eye.

If you're active in the outdoors, two final things to look for are rubber coating and waterproofness. Not only does the coating make your binoculars non-slip, even when wet, but it softens the blows of hard use and protects your binoculars for the long haul. An added bonus for hunters is the rubber coating also makes your binoculars quiet and non-reflective for that stealthy approach.

Another big concern, if you count on your binoculars in all kinds of conditions, is waterproofness. Some less expensive models are not waterproof, and that will be a concern if you are using them in wet weather. Other models are fully sealed and charged with nitrogen gas to keep them fully waterproof - allowing for an occasional dunking into the lake.

Cost
Cost is probably the largest differential factor in purchasing binoculars. They come in many models and many price ranges, and they all have their place. There is no substitute for high quality glass in providing high quality images, and good glass and good coatings cost good money - period. More expensive models are usually constructed to tighter tolerances and have better glass with more coatings.

However, that does not mean that you must spend $900 to have a decent set of binoculars. How much you spend should also depend on how often you use your binoculars. Some professional guides, whose success depends on glassing for animals, spend much of their day looking through their binoculars, and they opt for the highest quality optics to make their job easier and avoid eye strain.
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RE: Determining the right binocs
 

100x better is a hyperbole.

Incase the definition escapes you,

Hyperbole is a figure of speech in which statements are exaggerated. It may be used to create a strong impression, but is rarely meant to be taken literally.


On the other hand...

hair·split·ting
play_w2("H0015900")


(hârspltng)
n.
The making of unreasonably fine distinctions.[/align][/align][/align][/align]Mottz, FOV @1000 yards is basically the span you can see viewing something 1000 yards away (foroptics it is expressed in feet, but could be looked at as an angular FOV). It is inversely proportional to magnification, meaning the less magnification, the bigger the FOV, the more you zoom in, the less the FOV.[/align][/align]

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

LOL spearchucker, that about covers it!:D I tried explaining FOV without seeing your post, somehow cabelas words it much better.

Very good info.

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

If you are looking for optic advice I would ask Matt / PA. He seems to know what he is talking about:D

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

SO if I said a Bowtech was 100X better than a Hoyt....we could discern from that .....that it's probably closer to 10X better.....and that my hyperbole wasn't meant to be taken literally. And....if you say anything about it.....you're simply splitting hairs?

I think I got it!;)

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

Yah they do a pretty good job for sure, I was going to try explaining it as well, but figured bother I'd probably just mess it up anyways!

Btw to O.P. I have a pair of Bushnell Legacy 10x50mm and they are beaut. Perhaps the 50mm is abit bulky, but they take in more light, and I never have issue's with clarity.

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

Steve Mcbee since you have both of the binos that I have been considering which would be the top of the two? I know both are really fine glass and the fact that Leica offers a range finder bino could be the difference in choice. Just need to know ifthe range finder would be the tie breaker or not?.

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

For the love of...

goodness dude...seriously?[:-]

Yes, if you said bowtech was 100x better than Hoyt I wouldnt take you serious, whatsoever. No one on earth takes the saying "100x better" as a literal statement, or so I thought anyway. Brands were never mentioned here. Only opinions, if you think 42mm are brighter than 50mm use them, i just stated I felt 50s were better, but somehow that doesnt jive with you.

What gives dude?

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

Definately answered and clarified my questions about binocs. Thanks everyone.

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

He's just riding your sac, T. Trying to get a rise out of you.

Just ignore him.

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

For western big game hunting, I have settle on the 10X42's as being the best compromise of size, weight,and optics. And the best bang for the buck, IMO, is the Nikon Monarch ATB.

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

First Dan....ya gotta know what sac riding is to define it (your post is a good definition;)). Second....no...I'm not trying to get a rise out of him. Whena person asks a question in an information seeking thread.....and someone mentions that 8.5x50's are 100X better at low light gathering capabilities than 8x42's....I think a little clarification is in order. I'm also guessing the quality of your glass is a BIG factor in ANY of these optics threads.

In bowhunting situations....I'm not even sure larger is better (in either the magnification of the FOV numbers). Someone mentioned Matt/PA being a pretty good resource on this. I'll defer to him for clarification of what I'm attempting to say.....but "bigger" isn't necessarily better for bowhunting.

Or I may just be too old to understand all the hyperbole you kids rap at each other with these days. Highly plausible.;)

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

Simple threads get complicated really fast...:eek:

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

Double post.

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

I'm new here.....but I was an opticalman in the navy and made a living for several years servicing optics including thousands of pair of binoculars. I know optics. The article Spearchucker posted by Mark Mazour is excellent.

I'll tell you what I use. I have an 8 X 42 roof prism bino. I live out west in NM and find few situations where the 10 X would be an advantage. 10X gives a smaller exit pupil, a smaller FOV, and is harder to hold steady enough to really make that extra power worth having IMHO. Now I know alot of ya'll have 10 X binos but my recommendation would be to go for the 8 power with the 42 or 46 mm objective. The FOV, and twilight factor, on an 8X far outweights the power on a 10X.

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

Sorry for rapping about binocs?:eek:

The bolded statement made me laugh, they are INVERSELY related, one gets smaller the other gets bigger. So if you think less magnification is better, you in turn are saying more FOV is better. More magnification means less FOV. In other words, you HAVE to think bigger is better in one of the categories if you think less is more in the other.


Of course quality of glass is a big factor, that is kind of a given. I'd hope people would look for quality in every purchase they make. I do feel that once you reach a certain point (Nikon/Vortex), that IMO the price of the highest end models dont justify they improvement in quality.

Sure the $1800 Swaros have better glass than my set of $300 vortexs, but enough to spend $1500 more on? Not, imo. I'd say get the best glass you can reasonably afford, in a 8x or 10x, 40-50mm...you likely wont be dissapointed with any binocs in this range that are of good quality.



I retract all statements I have made to avoid any further confusion in NC. 42mm glass is far superior to 50mm for picking up light, especially in low light situations.My opinion that the science of bigger glass lets in more light, was completely wrong. I had it backwards it now seems.Not quite 100x better (have to speak literally on everything when avoiding confusion), but definitely superior none the less.

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

I personally like my Nikon 8x42s just for the simple fact that I don't hunt wide open country and I can see pretty much everything I want with them. 10x binos are just too hard to hold still for my liking.

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

Well, since we are in a bowhunting area, let me suggest considering lower magnification. IMO, binos are for use spotting game from shooting range to maybe twice your shooting range. With a bow, shooting range is roughly 40 yards max. Double, is roughly 100 yards max. A good 6x or 7x bino can be quite bright with 30 - 40mm objective lenses. Also, with my xbow, treestand, harness, calls, pruning shears and other crap, the last thing I want during archery season are big binos. My solution is 7 x 42 Bushnell Discoverers. They are great for peering through the brush for antler glints and do ok in open country rifle hunting. They are a bit lacking Antelope hunting, but I would say that I need a better spotter more than I need more bino power.

For pure archery, I would like some 6x30's. . .

RE: Determining the right binocs
 

LOL...you guys crack me up. :D

I too agree, lower power is better for bowhunting - unless you are hunting in the west or really open areas. I use 8x.

BTW...if you don't believe the 50mm lenses are far superior to 42mm....(all other things being the same) look through a rifle scope at dawn or dusk. Incredible the difference in what you can see with the 50mm. That said, QUALITY has alot to do with it also. A cheap 50mm is likely to be worse than a good 42mm.