Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

Okay all you experts out there, help me out.
For some reason I'm having trouble getting my broadheads to hit with and group like my field points. With the FPs I can put 4 in the target with all of the shafts touching each other...exactly where I aim. With my BHs, they are shooting left by about 6" and not grouping nearly as tight as my FPs.
This was not a problem last year and I have not changed a single thing.
If it matters, I'm shooting Muzzy, 100 fixed blades.
Thanks for any help.
Craig

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

I am no expert, but I bought Muzzy 3 blades, 125 grains, yesterday and the shop explained that i may have some variation. I had some plaining in my flight and it was hitting 1.5 -2 inches high and about the same to the left. A minor tweaking in my sight and I was zeroed in again. Just be patient and adjust the sight. Good luck.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

A small problem I am having is sometimes I see the front of my arrows kick out to the side then get straighten again as they fly.....you think I am shooting too light of a broadhead...100 grain fixed blade? I have 400 grain Beman's that are cut at 28.5". I can't figure it out.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

Could be a few things changed in your rig from last year such as cam timing and poundage due to cable/string wear. If they are a new type broadhead they could effect the balance of the shaft differently. For the situation you describe, tuning my RH bow, I would very slightly (.050" or so at a time) move the rest to the right (in toward the bow) until they start grouping together.Very small changes will move the broadhead groups more than they move the fieldpoint groups and at some point they should impact very close to the same point. In addition, your groups should tighten up as you get things more finetuned.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

Consistently or once in a while? Could be hand torque.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

a small amount of hand torque will mess you up alot.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

Funny, aren't you the same guy that said:
If you are shooting 70# then your spine may be a bit weak (if you mean .400 spine and not grain)but, hey, I don't want to get you caught up in all this BS ;).

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

Yes Bruce that was me---I mean I don't like to get caught up debating over "ethical" arrow weight and all ad naseum--it just gets old. What never gets old is talking about how to get my groups tighter. I believe I am shooting around #65 and shooting 400 Bemans. Thanks for any help all.

Kodiak--once every 4-5 shots probably--cant figure it out....I do grip my bow a little tighter than most.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

Have you ever "papertuned" your bow? It's how I have gotten my broadheads to fly like my fieldpoints.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

i have the EXACT same problem. it only happens prolly 2 out of 10 arrows. and no its not my arrows.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

If it is once every 4-5 shots it could be grip, as stated, or it could be that one arrow. Mark your arrows with some numbers, dots, lines, or something to distinguish each one and then you will know if it is the same arrow evrytime or a different arrow. It it is a different arrow each time then it could be grip. I still think your arrows may be a little weak spined for even 65#. What bow do you shoot?

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

I had the very same problem. My Muzzy's weren't flying like my field points. With the season being this close, I decided to pick up some 2 blade Rage's. They flew just like my field points. I'll go with the Rage's this year, and really work on my bow next year to make sure everything is tuned up well. I just don't want to mess around with my setup this close to the beginning of the season. My guess is that you are having the same problem I was.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

Bruce:

"If it is once every 4-5 shots it could be grip, as stated, or it could be that one arrow. Mark your arrows with some numbers, dots, lines, or something to distinguish each one and then you will know if it is the same arrow evrytime or a different arrow. It it is a different arrow each time then it could be grip. I still think your arrows may be a little weak spined for even 65#. What bow do you shoot? "

What spine would you recommend for me? I shoot a Reflex Excursion 2004. I just played around and put on some heavier broadheads today and shot....and they seemed to group tighter and not have the side to side inconsistency. Maybe it was just a placebo effect, not sure. Refletched a bunch of my arrows tonight and gonna get back at it tomorrow.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

Thanks. Until I saw your second post, I was not sure if you were answering to my problem or the HIJACK.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

I have a similar issue with my Muzzy Mx4s on my carbons, I talked to my proshop and Mike said its a plaining issue. You need to sight your bow in for the broadheads or use a mechanical style head. Mine arent drifint left or right but dropping 3-4 inches. I can bring my sight down and whala. You may have to move your rest or sight, which ever you prefer to get the accuracy needed to improve on the plaining. This is common with some arrow and broadhead combinations. if youre looking to go wiht a mechanical Mike recomended the Rage SlipCam. I may try them out even though im not a fan of mechanical heads.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

Navy--sorry for the HIJACK. I didn't mean to do it all. I was just caught up with what I was doing yesterday and it was important. Sometimes on my threads, people start similar discussions to what I am asking and it seems to help me gain a better understanding. That being said, sorry about the hijack.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

Absoluely not!Nothing personal wis-b-h, but if a broadhead tipped arrow is planing, then you have a tuning issue that needs to be corrected correctly. Moving a sight is not the answer, and just throwing on a mechanical is not either.I just cannot express enough the importance of a straight flying arrow when it comes to hunting. You are cheating yourself and the animal you hunt ifyou hunt with anything less.


In fact, there is a thread floating around here about why be anti-mechanical, and that right there is why I am anti-mechanical, because too many hunters throw on a mechanical instead of tuning their bow for good arrow flight.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

Agree.Make sure each head spins on the arrow perfectly. Also, make sure your fletchings are fletched helical or at least straight offset. Straight fletch is going to give you some fits.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

I ran your data and apparently I was wrong about it being weak. Anyway, I would say the heavier tip gives you a better FOC and that is helping your groups. If you can keep the heavier tip on there that would probably be a good idea.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

It can take less than an hour to tune a bow to shoot properly and it would have zero effect on your season even if you did this the day before.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

Ok so how is this problem fixed perfectly since all im doing is shooting low???? Why readjust sight. rest, nockpoint, etc, when im shooting low???? I understand abotu the other guy yes, he may want ot adjust more than his sight and rest.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

NavyDeerHunter,
You need to learn how to properly grip the bow and tune your bow. Its never too late! There is no need to grip it tight! And as far as your "Planing", you need to adjust your rest for left/right and up/down issues. Your planing arrows is taking away KE from your arrow. Your trying to kill an animal, not fling arrows at a target. Get the max out of your set up! By taking the time to properly grip your bow, learn good form and tuning your bow will make you know your set up that much better. Don't be afraid to tinker! Fixed blade B/H Can and Do fly with your field points! You might try a search on proper grips and other tuning issues! Just a thought! Good luck!!!!

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

Why? Because shooting low means you aren't tuned. Move your rest up just a hair and try it (or move the nock pt down a hair). It takes less effort to move a nock pt than adjust a sight, IMO. Think of it like this...your bh tipped arrow wants to travel in the exact direction it is pointed when you release. So, if yours are going low, your arrow is starting out pointed down. Move the rest up, or the nock pt down to correct.

A field pt tipped arrow is much, much more influenced (corrected) by your fletchings, so they often will not reflect the exact direction they are pointed at release. Also, they will most certainly group ok even out of a poorly tuned bow, simply because the fletching can keep them under control and allow them all to go to the same location on the target.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

Ahhhhhhh, now this may be my problem. When I bought my Arizona E-Z fletch I mistakenly picked up a "straight"...and for alum arrows at that...and I shoot carbon. [8D] Guess I was not paying very close attention that day.
I have since ordered a new jig and will put right helical on my arrows when it comes in. As such, I probably won't feel comfortable until I do and therefore may end up missing opening day. [:@][&o]

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

I found this. Maybe this will help.

Proper grip
http://www.buckmasters.com/BM/Deskto...amp;PortalID=0

Paper tuning
http://www.huntingblades.com/papertuningbow.html

Read the black and red bold lines at the bottom!
http://www.huntingblades.com/papertuningbow.html

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

Thanks James. I do appreciate your input, but I'm not new to archery and have been shooting for about 30 years. I'm certain that my grip is not the problem and that proper shooting form/technique is not something that Ineed to worry about. I've been told by several pro-shop folks that my form is perfect, but more importantly I've killed more than my share of deer and never had a problem. Something has changed in my gear and I'm trying to figure that out. If I can put a group of FPs spot on to where I'm aiming and all of the shafts are touching each other, but then using the same shooting form/technique I shoot my BHs and they are 6" left and in a loose group, I figure it's not me.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

No worries Brett. I was just busting your chops and probably should have used the :D;)[8D]to indicate so.

Onward.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

Ok...so I went and read thru that mechanical thread I referenced...whew! I am gonna just clarify right now, seeing as how some guys are taking things pretty serious in that thread, LOL. I am not anti-mechanical. But I sure do hate to see someone throw on a mechanical because they can get it to fly without tuning their bow properly. IMO, there should be no less tuning involved with a mechanical than with a fixed blade.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

FOC is 13.1%, you're ok there!!! But your spine IS weak. You'd be better off with a 340 with a 125gr tip, or looking into a different line all together unfortunately. A Beman ICS Energy in a 360 w/ a 100gr tip is about as good as I can do for you for a recommendation, but a second would be a MFX 340 or Hunter ELITE 340 w/ a 125gr tip, are CLOSE, even better with 135gr tip though.

HONESTLY, if a BH is on the fore-end of that arrow, it's going to accentuate form flaws, which will make your groupings worse. Guys who just move their sights to their BH's groups usually will have problems at longer distances, 40+, because if you need to move your sights to your BH's, you're not fixing the problem, which is the TUNE of the bow, you're putting a bandaid over it. Very small adjustments towards the direction you want the BH's to move IS the correct way to do it, and once you get your BH and FP's shooting to a near same POI (point of impact), you'll find that you shoot BH AND FP's better than you did before. Provided that you are RIGHT spined and have arrows spinning TRUE, you SHOULD be able to accomplish this.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

Shooting low doesn't mean you aren't "tuned", necessarily. It could mean you need to make a simple sight adjustment. If your arrow is flying true....and your center shot is correct....a sight adjuatment is ALL that is needed in this instance.

Also....a rest adjustment is WAYyyyyy more simple than a nock point adjustment.;)...and a sight adjustment is WAyyyy more simple than either the nock point OR the rest adjustment (especially if it isn't needed).

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

Ah ha! sounds like you found your culprit, or at least a major factor. I never did like those EZ Fletchers. This will likely solve the group size issue but the point of impact of the group is still going to be a tuning issue with the bow. You should read the Easton tuning guide or at least the broadhead tuning section of it.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

I don't know how you figure that, but whatever. Shooting low or high is no different than shooting left or right. Something is off. Why would someone go thru the trouble to tune their bow for bh's hitting left or right, but not up or down? Also not sure what centershot has to do with a broadhead hitting low or high either. As far as nock pt adjustment...I can adjust mine in a matter of maybe 5 seconds. Not sure what is involved with yours, but I simply get the nock pliers out, loosen, move, tighten.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

Agree completely. The tuning guide oughta be required reading with a test for anyone that wants to bowhunt. It is simply invaluable, IMO. I do like the EZ fletcher though...I have been using the same one for the last 19 or so years, even though I have the original (for aluminums) it works fine for carbons, just gotta be careful closing it.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

And all I said was it could be as simple as a sight adjustment.

They wouldn't. I never addressed those issues.

I mentioned checking center shot when you touted moving the rest and nocking point as a "fix" for hitting low. Assuming center shot and spineare correct.....you need to adjust your sight. Period. Center shot, first. Sight adjustment last. I would never adjust my nocking point without checking center shot/level....and simply hitting low wouldn't tell me the nock set or rest was "off", necessarily. I'd also ALWAYS adjust rest height first (before nocking point) if it were feasible.

I don't use a brass nocking point, either. But I'd still ask you why you wouldn't simply adjust your rest height. For me....(and I have to assume you don't shoot a D-loop)...."I'd" have to remove the servedin nock sets I have above and below my nocking point. Remove my D-loop. Tie in a new upper and lower nocking point....and tie on a new D-loop. I'd rather simply adjust my rest height if it's feasible to do so.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

If you say so...

The guy's broadheads are hitting low as compared to fp's. He needs to adjust his rest or nock pt - if it was me, that is what I would do - period. I would never adjust my sight in his situation. According to your statement in bold above,someone's set uphypothetically couldbe a half inch or more nock high and you are saying adjust your sight "period". I guess if it works for you, then go with it.

Yes, the reason I would go for nock pt first is cause I do not shoot a loop.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

I consider "level" an aspect of "center shot"....and even said so.

So....I stand by the bolded statement.

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

Ihad the same problem...Muzzys were ok..but Steel Force closed the group..They shoot so good that I only shoot one at a time..tired of rippping up fletching.
They are 3 for 30.00 :(..but worth it..

RE: Field Point vs. Broadhead flight/grouping problem
 

I guess now I know why I was having such a hard time getting why you would say what you were saying....kind of.