Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

I read in the PGC news and notes on their Web site that there is a proposal for a 400 grain minimum arrow weight for deer hunting next year. (35 lbs. minimum draw weight also) What do you guys think about that?

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

I guess those officers are gonna hafta start carrying scales with them too eh?

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

I would say it is a just another useless proposal that will do nothing to enhance bowhunting or the ability to kill game more cleanly. I am refering to the 400 grn rule. I realy don't have a problem with the 35 lbs draw weight.

TAKE YOUR KIDS HUNTING AND YOU WON'T BE HUNTING FOR YOUR KIDS

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

It must be a fact that the idiots who make proposals such as the 400gr deal have no brains whatsoever!!!!!!!
You can have a 600gr arrow and hit the deer in the A$$ and get the same result as a 300gr arrow.Why is that so hard to see?????? Am I missing something?

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

Tell the dirt on the other side of all the deer I've killed that it only got hit by 370 grains.

Just another example of PGC only taking one variable into account in order to propose new regs here.....there are roughly 1,000,000 things that you could change to improve hunting here and they just keep coming up with new garbage every year.
Pretty soon I'm going to have to hire an lawyer to review my ever growing regs book to tell me what I can shoot, and where, and with what at what time......and what I'll need to be shooting and wearing at the same time.

Is a 350 grain arrow a problem out of Junior's 35# bow??.......maybe. I don't know enough about what else is going on. Broadhead type, is it a hard cam 35# or an old wheel bow? Is everything tuned?

Take the same arrow out of my bow (if I choose) at 336fps?? and 88 ft lbs of KE??.......I'm not really seeing a problem. :)

Maybe for 2003 we'll see a proposal for no bows weighing less than 4lbs.......or maybe we'll have to stand on one foot when we shoot......who knows. Give me a break.

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

they do up here antler eater..400 grains...heck we have one for 900 grains arras up here that has been proposed!

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

There is no need for a minimum weight arrow. That would be a stupid rule.

Nic

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

Lilhunter:
My point exactly! Another piece of equipment for the tax payer to pay for.

Everytime another reg. is made it chips away at one of the freedoms that makes this country the great country that it is. There are a number of states that require no more than a 65 % let-off. Shoot, is that effective or actual? Does hystersis play a role in their measurement? Can the officers tell the difference?

It just muddies the water in my opinion. Someone that knows the facts sees through these ridiculous proposals, but the ones making the legislative changes are usually unexperienced in what they are proposing.

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

oh man not again <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>!

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

i have heard of the 900 grain restriction in alaska. just for your information, i went to the local archery shop, and weighed a fiberglass fishing arrow. 725 grains, ready to shoot deer. i would probably remove the fish head, and use an expandable head. sure wouldnt have a problem with energy there boy. i think the 900 grain thing is crazy, but the 400 grain rule is more in line, although i dont think they should impose that on shooters either. if anything, there needs to be a proficentcy test, just to make sure you can shoot your bow. that to me would be more important that a heavier arrow. a heavy arrow in the gut is no better that a light arrow in the gut. no matter how much you polish a volkswagon, it is still a volkswagon.

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

I consider that a heavy arrow for me and I pull 64#.

Matt/Pa I am with you,There is no way I killed those deer with my 356gr arrows or burried the arrows in the ground several inches,must not be able to be done if the politicians say it can't.Oh yeah,that is with expandables.


The AMO minimum requirement are more on line with arrow weights.Look at AMO minimum requirement on the bojackson site,they pretty well have it figured out and if legislation wants to follow guidelines,these would be pretty good. www.bowjackson.com


There are many factors in penetrating animals and weight IMO is over emphasized.If we could figure a way to teach everyone how to build a correct arrow for a particular setup,we would be much better off.


Shot placement is the most important and none of the legislature will touch that issue.

Edited by - tfox on 01/21/2002 23:12:53

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

weight over emphisized? I think that is going to far LOL...it is just as big of a part as speed is! Arrow flight is even more important then both not to mention type of BH.

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

OHarcher, you're supposed to aim a little more north on them deer. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Does anyone know the actual reason for them to propose a minimum arrow weight regulation? Are they finding a lot of deer with arrows sticking out of them? What is the AMO minimum recommended arrow weight per # of draw weight? Will a 35# bow cast a legal hunting arrow 130 yards? (californias requirement for bows)

Lilhunter, was the 900g proposal for specific critters or across the board? That's one honkin arrow dude. Nothing I shoot would cast that weight with any authority.

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

Just another example of the idiotic things the PGC does to occupy their time. My first season, I had a double lung pass through and burried the arrow in the mud up to the fletching on the other side from 20 yards. I had my bow set at 43lbs. using a 351 gr. arrow. With the big push towards crossbows in PA, I am wondering how much a crossbow bolt weighs?

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

I agree with Tribalscream and Matt. My arrows weigh right around 350 gr. and I shoot clean through the deer. Will ask my friendly neighborhood deputy about this (he is my best friends father, right now he's sending me info on the 4 pt. restrictions...he's telling me I will have to hunt NY to be able to keep getting my spikes!).

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

I had heard of this before. As stated in some of the above posts....it ignores kinetic energy figures entirely.....especially in how it impacts penetration.

I thought Vern Schaeffer got demoted or something...<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggg....!

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

i dont like the idea....its shot plactment that counts.

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

So, my fiance's bow at 40# has to shoot a 400gr arrow? That's 10gr/pound. I'm working on getting her down to a 250gr arrow! Why don't I just give her a slingshot and a 400gr chunk of lead? It would accomplish the same thing!!

Holy cow, I'd have to up my arrow weight 20gr to be legal! Now that's too much. Why not just a 35# minimum? I don't have a problem with that.

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

Hey Mike, the 900 grains was for Moose and Grizz/brown bears. For the rest of the critters it was a proposed 650 grains! The info used to come with these figures was the Natal Study. Just picked up my copy a couple weeks ago, plus a copy of the study done in TBM by Dr. Ashby. Its all interesting to say the least. It proves what I preach but 900 grains...heck it looks like I am headed to shooting REBAR <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>!

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

Pretty soon they will be telling us what color fletching to use. I dont know what is the matter with them for every good rule they have 5 bonehead rules......

Hunting with a bow brings about a different challenge on every hunt!!!

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

Pennsylvania has a reputation for keeping their primitive seasons primitive. Flintlock and roundball were the only things allowed in muzzleloader season for many years. Just think what you would be faced with if they went that route with bow regulations. Instead of griping about 400 grain minimums, you'd all be hunting with selfbows, cane arrows and trade points! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Tribalscream, you asked for weights on crossbow bolts. You might be able to make use of this info in the PA crossbow 'discussions.' Tenpoint crossbows has an arrow chart on their site, in PDF format, showing weights for 20&quot; bolts, carbon inserts, feather fletch and 100 grain points: 2216, 378 grains; 2315, 381 grains; 2219, 416 grains. It also shows speeds with their crossbows using the 2219's ranging from 270-312 fps. With the 2216's, speeds range from 280-323 fps.

www.tenpointcrossbows.com

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

Thanks ArthurP. I had a hunch that maybe all crossbow bolts weighed at least 400 grains and therefore would be legal. Glad to know I was wrong. I wouldn't have a problem using a 400 grain arrow if I could get one to shoot properly. The arrows I shoot now are only 301 grains. Having to add weight tubes to my GoldTips or switch back to alumi-logs <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> would have to do I guess. It just seems kinda silly to me.

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

Don't go getting too complacent about the weights of those bolts just yet, Tribal!

There are several very simple things they can do to make them ALL hit 400 grains or better.
Switch the carbon inserts to aluminum. Switch from feathers to vanes. Or simply change from 100 grain points to 125's.

Do any combination of those things and Voila! They're legal.

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

hey art, thats not a half bad idea...I have some river cane sittn here and 2 hickory staves..some band saw blades...watch our caribou, I am a coming one of these next few years, if/whenever I learn to make a decent selfbow LOL!

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

TAKE YOUR TWO HANDS, MAKE FISTS,TAKE THE TWO FINGERS THAT ARE NEIGBOURS TO YOUR INDEX FINGERS AND PUT THEM UP. NOW WAVE THEM AROUND AT ANYONE WANTING TO PASS SUCH A BULL#^*@# LAW. IT's LIKE OUR BLOODY GUN LAWS. CHRETIAN CAN SHOVE IT UP HIS EASTERN GOVERNING FRENCH YOU KNOW WHAT. Here's my vote, saskatchewan, alberta, bc. The western republic of canada, our priminister, KLEIN. Unless you americans want to make some bid for alberta, im sure we wouldn't really care.
Good shooting.
Dylan<img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

Kinda gettin a chuckle here thinking about the Barney Fife type deputy WCO waitin in the bushes by your car with his grain scale and bow scale in hand<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

Lilhunter, the only way to make a selfbow is to make shavings! Quit sitting on those staves and get after it. It's awful hard to screw up a hickory stave. Just take it easy and don't get in too big of a hurry.

BTW, I just got my hands on volume 3 of 'The Traditional Bowyers Bible.' Finally competed my set.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Pennsylvania 400 grain arrow minimum.
 

to much going on right not Art....also broke 2 birch staves...go figure eh..they hardly made the tillering stick before they popped! Normally I spend most of time shooting and arra building, just wish I had more time..then again dont we all! As for the bow building....well no excuse other then the time deal..working 10-14 hour days currently and just got a set of cedar strip canoe plans in to hopefully start working on this coming saturday! Maybe I will be done with that by spring..then fishing and hunting rolls around LOL!