TAKE A STAND!
 

I just told an old friend I wouldn't be hunting with him anymore. Sick and tired of helping him drag small bucks off our properties. Asked 3 or 4 times to quit and he is just to trigger happy.He's mad but at least our little bucks will be safer and that is more important! Grow as a hunter or stay out of the woods! Right or wrong?

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

It's your land and your choice. Depending on your buck to doe ratio you may or may not have done the right thing. I have a friend who says if you ain't gonna hang it on your wall, don't shoot any bucks. Every year, him and his friends take 20 - 30 does off his property. He's had the land for a long time and last week he told me that almost every trailcam pic is a buck. I think during the rut, his land is going to be pretty much empty. Is that good game management?

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

1. HIS choice to shoot what he wants. None of your business.

2.YOUR choice to help him drag or not.

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

Is it your land? If not and he has the same access and rights you do why not be happy with what makes him happy? Whats more important a friendship or a big buck to pump your ego?

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

I don't know if it is right or wrong only you can answer that ?, But I know I have a friend that hasn't grown in the hunting world he is going to be hunting the same tree for 9 years in a row and it is only 50 yards off the road so he can't get lost. He usally only gets a doe or a small buck but last year he shot his biggest there a 7pt with a 17 inch spread and if he gets excited I get excited, I have been hunting with this friend for over 20 years now and Because I want to hunt different spots and states and hold out for bigger bucks than the average guy doesn't mean he has to and I love being with him so what makes him happy makes me happy and I will drag his deer out till i cant any more. It also makes a difference that he is only a weekend warrior because of his job and family situation so God bless close friends!! This friend has also taken my daughter hunting while I was off in other states pursuing big antlers and if I can trust him with my baby he has my most utmost trust many things define a friend not just what they shoot!!! Walt

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

This property produced #4 biggest in the state a few years back and cosistently shows good genetics. It is the only property we hunt that has cooperative neighbors that feel the same way I do. We all discussed the issue and agreed to follow the same plan. He hunted this property through me because it is my families land. We do not hate does and do our best to keep the ratio in good check. I just feel that if everyone else agrees on a plan and he is a guest then he should follow the plan. It wouldn't be so bad if he didn't just deliberately do what he was asked not to.

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

GMMAT--it is not his choice. It is steels land. And as stikbow stated, sometimes it is not always about hunting, but is more importantly about a friend. That being said, if you feel strongly not to kill small bucks and your friend will not agree to follow the plan, then I guess you have to do what you have to do. How about have him sign a contract stating that " I will not kill a buck smaller than.........."

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

Soooo a FRIEND kills one or two small bucks off of the PROPERTIES ( plural ) per year, and you kick him to the curb??? I would hate to have to try to be your friend and have to live up to your standards..... " Grow as a hunter or get out of the woods " ..... man, thats harsh ..... Maybe accept your friends for who they are, be happy for them, and understand that one or two deer a year will not ruin your land.... But I guess thats not an issue anymore, since you made it clear to him what was more important.... and it wasn't His friendship.

Send him my way, he can kill what he wants and I'll slap him on the back, he haw with him, and not only help drag it out but help him clean it too.....

He lost nothing in losing you as a friend...... and thats sad.

MET

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Would you really lose a friendship over the size of antlers?

Choice is yours but.:eek:

If he has agreed to it,then you have reason to be upset.

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Sounds more like an acquaintance, rather than a friend.

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why is everyone givin this guy grief? his friend is huntin the land because of HIM... if they have rules an cant follow them get the hell out... is it so hard??? gmmat tfox michealt... if you owned land (which you very well might) an you invited ME to hunt it but with rules to kill nothin under a 8 pt.. an i kill a 5 pt the first morning. your not gonna be happy.. now i understand we might not be "friends" but still if theres rules follow them.. that guy aint much of a friend anyway if he kills deer that he knows the lands owners DONT want shot!!!!!!

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

Damned right he should.

VA (and others) I missed (because it's not in there;)) the part in the original thread where it said it was the OP's land. That makes a HUGE difference.

A "guest" should shoot what he's been asked to shoot....and NOTHING else. "If" you impose restrictions on your guests......they should follow your guidelines or EXPECT to be tossed off the land.

I learned a lesson discussing this a year or so ago. From now on.....ANYONE hunting with me has carte' blanche rights to shoot anything that tickles their fancy. Anything. If you're hunting with me.....there's a reason you have that liberty. if you're not....there's a reason for that, too;).

Your land........your rules. Period.

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

Thats right. I agree wholeheartedly. However if its an "old friend" of mine there will be no rules. I have invited friends to hunt with me in the past and will again in the future. If you're a good enough friend to get an invite , well, you're a good enough friend for me to help drag and help celebrate anything you choose to shoot.

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

To me an old hunting friendship is more important than letting small bucks grow. Obviously the OP feels opposite. I just don't understand the "grow as a hunter or stay home" comment. Growing as a hunter should have nothing to do with raising ones standards on the age or antler size of the deer they choose to shoot.

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

"Growing as a hunter" includes understanding that others have put in a lot of hard work and exercised a lot of patience and self-restraint to get to where they are in their management plan.

"Growing as a hunter" includes respecting the wishes of the landowner.

"Growing as a hunter" includes understanding that the wishes of the landowner trump YOUR personal wishes EVERY time.

"Growing as a hunter" incudes understanding if you're told to stay home because you can't abide by the rules set forth, that you knowingly accepted to be able to hunt there, that it was 100% YOUR own doing.

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It sounds like you are fortunate to hunt on your families land and now it is going to your head? It is unfortunate that you now refer to an old friend as merely a "guest"..

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

Well there are things to consider here. 1. Friends 2.The Heard.
1. If you are a real friend, "as in grew up together" then you should try harder to get him to help you manage the heard.
2. If your does to buck ratio is good then there is no reason he cant shoot those bucks, basically could be cull bucks.
But if they are 1 to 2 year old bucks then i think he should pass. Simply friendship over bucks will cause the property to be pour hunting.
However bucks over friendship, you lose a hunting buddy.

So my advice is to talk with him. Better yet get with him in the field and film for him and help him decide yes or no.
If you guys dont manage the property you will decrease your hunting percentage and friendship along with it.
The 4 or 5 times he was asked to pass on those bucks, could have happened in a single season. Educate yourselves on how to manage the property. reason with him on limitations. Also, if others hunt there that dont have limitations on size of deer taken and he does thats not good management as well.
The rules have to apply to everyone including the owners. "Do as i say" "Not as i do" will not work for this situation.
Help your friend help you get it right. Dont just drop him after a couple of suggestions. Find out if he is hurting the heard or helping it before making such decisions.

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

I consider those points as being a gracious guest and respecting the landowners rules. Whether it'shunting, fishing, camping, hiking or riding ATVs the guest should obey the landowners wishes.

But it was my impression, after reading the original post, that the comment about "growing as a hunter" was directed at the fact that this friend was shooting small bucks. But that's just how I viewed it. Obviously it wasn't how it was intended.

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

Thanks for all the input several things to think about. However, I stand my ground. We have a lot of property to hunt if we want to just blow off steam and take whatever walks. The last time we hunted, we chatted for the third or fourth time about our goals and what was expected on that particular farm. When I arrived to his stand he told me he got a buck and I was thrilled to think we had a good one down, but when I had to drag a yearling 4pt. out, needless to say that is not an honest mistake, that is blatent disregard to a request.

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

It is his choice to shoot whatever he wants that is legal. Not everyone is a trophy hunter. My family stays fed because I bring home deer. They really don't like eating antlers. Granted, who wouldnt want to shoot a nice big buck? I would too, but that is not why I hunt. I hunt becasue its my passion and it puts food on the table. And I am veryproud of whatever comes out of the woods. Does also

Adam Bowman

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

i understnad that everyone is sayin if he was a friend you wouldnt "kick" him off the ground.....think of it this way..if the other guy was a"GOOD" friend he would RESPECT his FRIENDS/LAND OWNER wishes... not say screw him im shootin what i want cause i can!!!!!!! its a double edged sword here!!!!!

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

Ok, first off, rules are rules. If the person who has access to the land sets rules than the guests need to follow them. If you don't like the rules than find somewhere else that doesn't have any rules.

Secondly, why does the friendship have to end because they don't hunt together?? I have a couple of good friends that do hunt but I won't ask them to hunt with me for various reasons. That doesn't stop us from getting together and hanging out. We even swap hunting stories all the time. If they are both mature adults than they won't let this end their friendship.

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

Read the rest of my post,if he agreed to it,then the friend isn't being a friend but it doesn't sound like a friendship to me.

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

I agree but there were some details left out in the original post.

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

If I asked a friend NOT to do something, and he defied my request, he is not a very good friend. If the lands in question are being run a certain way, and everyone agrees to abide by those rules, but one guy thinks he is above that agreement, then yes he should be kicked out or told not to hunt there.

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

Advise: Get it in writing. Also, if he is truely a friend, he wouldn't be breaking said agreements repeatedly. If he is truely a friend, I am sure that you gave him ample warning as you being a friend should have.If he is merely a member of your hunting group, then nothing lost except a rule breaker. I rarely hunt with or invite others to hunt with me, who are not friends or family. In the event that someone that I am not entirely familiar with is hunting with me, such as a friend of my brother, I make sure that they know what we are trying to do.



I concur.


[quote Thanks for all the input several things to think about. However, I stand my ground. We have a lot of property to hunt if we want to just blow off steam and take whatever walks. The last time we hunted, we chatted for the third or fourth time about our goals and what was expected on that particular farm. When I arrived to his stand he told me he got a buck and I was thrilled to think we had a good one down, but when I had to drag a yearling 4pt. out, needless to say that is not an honest mistake, that is blatent disregard to a request. ][/quote]

"Blow off steam and take whatever walks?" You don't really sound like the QDMA type.

"I was thrilled to......" Sounds like you are more upset that YOU were let down, not your herd.

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

Without writing a book on the subject, I 100% agree with GMMat and Ben/PA. Good job sticking to your rules Steelslinger!

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I guess I'm not clear on what your definition of afriend is. I have found as I've gotten older the number of true friends I have is pretty low. Don't get me wrong I have plenty of buddies, pals, acquaintances, etc. If he were a true friend of mine then I absolutely wouldn't impose "my rules" orbeliefs on him, especially on something as trivial as deer "management". Consider the 1 or 2 deer he kills every season "road kill" and move on with your life and be happy for him, or kick him to the curb and give Bill Jordan a call.

Just think whenyou and your friend are sitting around after the season having a cold one and you say:

"Man my 150" 8 point sure looks good on the wall, but hey your 4 pointer I helped you drag was nice too, cough cough sarcasm cough." Then you can hit him with a few more friendly jabs about bambi and the deer still having milk on it's lips, and call him the Dink Decimater.

Man that would be funny, but oh yeah I forgot there is no friend sitting there with you......who cares you can still just stare at your stuffed deer head and feel good about it, right?

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

Steel I had the same problem with my land 2 years ago. 2 invited guest took 1.5 year old bucks after I told them over and over again not to. In the 2007 season I told 1 he was not welcome back and the other 1 I told him if he shoots a buck he has to get it mounted and if he doesn't want to mount it he has to pay me the cost of the mount. Or he will not be invited back.He listened and shot a nice 10 and all seems to be fine now. It makes people think a little harder when they have to spend $300 or more to shoot a deer.

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

when i invitefriends to hunt with me on my land, i make it perfectly clear that we have certain standards on what size bucks we shoot here. i'll usually show them pictures or mounts on my wall to show them the type of deer they should be waiting for, and friends that ignore these requests and blast away at small bucks are not invited back. i don't jump down their throat or end our friendship, i just help them find and drag out their deer, help them clean it, and send them on their way like nothing is wrong. but you can rest assured they won't be invited back.

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

All of us have been in this situation. . . A 120" hanging around our stand, giving us a perfect broadside shot. It is hard to resist. I used to be like that as well, until I took a nice deer, and until I saw a 180" deer walking just out of bow range. Maybe if you get your "friend" on a big one, he will "mature". Nothing is worth losing a good friend over; even gettingyour name in the record books. . .

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner! ;)

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

There's two sides to this issue:
Is Steel putting his land management goals above his generosity towards his friend?
Is his friend being rude and disrespectful by not observing the restrictions?

I won't answer either question but let me put the scenario another way. Your buddy is over your house to watch the game. He asks if there's something to drink and you tell him; "Yeah get a (insert beverage) out of the fridge." But your friend goes into your kitchen and decides he'd rather have a $$$ bottle of wine you have been saving for an anniversary celebration. Do the arguements against Steel still work here? Should his friend have carte blanche to any beverage in the house?

Or you ask him to take his shoes off at the door so your new white carpet doesn't get dirty. Should he be able to tramp into your house with muddy boots because he's your friend and you wouldn't put the price of a new carpet ahead of his friendship?

Can be viewed both ways.

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

If he is your close friend and not your family members, tell him the other family members voted and asked he not come back since he could not follow their rules. If it would end the friendship the blame is on him for not following rules not to mention to have a friendship end over him not being able to followrules is sad.

How old is this fellow? I ask because you said you help him drag his deer out. Is it a necessity you help because of a disability or are you just being a bud? If he is able to do it himself maybe he would be better off finding his own place to hunt so he can shoot whatever he wants.

If you are trying to establish a certain quality of deer along with your neighbors than you have to have that certain type of hunter.

RE: TAKE A STAND!
 

The guys a prick, plain and simple. Its your land, you allowed him to hunt it with strick rules set fourth. He did not abide by them at all which means you have every right in the world to kick his ass out. If he was your friend, he wouldnt have went against your wishes in the first place. I wouldnt feel guilty, i would feel relieved that the little ones will get to become big ones someday.