Attn: Veterans **UPDATED**
 

ATTN: All military veterans

A few years ago, I had an idea and now I feel a strong desire to get it going. Below is my idea and what I want to do. Please give your input on my idea and what I need to do to improve it please.

Thanks,

Mark Cooper
MSgt/USAF Retired

After reading a lot of threads and thinking, should I keep the focus on military but expand the eligible persons to include law enforcement officers, firefighters, and EMT's? These people too serve our great country and put their lives on the line every day just like military personnel. Their "enemy" may be different in most instances, but the bottom line is the same.

CAMP ECHO OSCAR ONE NINER
Background: There are two Armed Forces Recreation Centers in the United States. One is at Disney World and the other is in Hawaii. Both of them are quite expensive to stay at. Talking with soldiers returning from the war in the middle east, I was told by many that they were going to Lake of the Ozarks to get reacquainted with their families. Many of them were paying up to $300 per night. I then thought there should be something more centrally located in the midwest that would not cost a soldier an arm and a leg to stay at. I developed the plan to build a not for profit recreation area for not only active duty military, but also disabled veterans, retirees, and national guardsmen/reservists. The plan was to find the land and build cabins on it for our military and their families to stay at. I then expanded the idea to have enough land so that the visitors to the camp could hunt, hike and fish. The next stage was to come up with a name for the camp. I decided on Camp Echo Oscar
One Niner. Echo is the phonetic spelling for the letter "E". Oscar represents "O". The E is for Enlisted and the O is for Officer. Enlisted and Officer ranks both go from 1 through 9. Therefore Camp Echo Oscar One Niner is for allmilitary personnel without regard to their rank.
In 2007, my wife and I purchased 51 acres in South Central Iowa. It had 5 ponds on it and a 12 acre area that used to be a campgrounds. This reignited my desire to get EO19 going again. The neighbors to the East of my property have 260 acres and one of their spouses also owns another 100 acres that adjoins the property. Both the neighbor and the spousehave been talking of selling the property soon. This would be the perfect place for EO19. It has about 120 acres ofCRP land and the rest in timber. There is already electricity run to the property. Not only are their excellent places
for the cabins, but there are a lot of deer and turkeys on the property.
PLAN
Step 1: Locate Sponsors to Purchase the Property and Build the Facilities,with a total of 15 cabins,a community center,anda general store which could be in the pole barn on the property with some renovation. All corporate sponsors will be recognized in the welcome packet and with plaques in the individual cabins, the meeting hall, and/or the general store. Each cabin will be named after a prior military person whose actions command respect with no regard to enlisted or officer status at the time of their action.
Step 2: Incorporate EO19 as a not for profit organization.
Step 3: Set up a big name hunter (w/TV Show) to guide disabled soldiers on a spring turkey hunt, a fall shotgun hunt, and a winter muzzleloader hunt. This will not only bring awareness in the hunting community to these brave men and women, but will also help the guides career by increasing his/her visibility in the military community.
Step 4: Advertise EO19 through press releases to branch newspapers, internet forums, and a website. This advertising will also
include a free week every year for one member of each branch.
Step 5: Until business picks up, my wife would run EO19 day to day business andI will do paperwork and alladministrative and agricultural duties in the evening and weekends. Once bookings are filling up,I will go to work for EO19 full time.
Step 6: Add more personnel as necessary to run EO19 in a efficient and professional manner.
Step 7: Any funds not required for the next year's operating expense and not earmarked for purchasing more property will be donatedto a military charity/organization (i.e. USO, Disabled Veterans Association, Paralyzed Veterans of America, Enlisted Association, Officer
Association, etc).

Sorry for the length of this post, but it is important to me and would like other prior service members feedback on this.

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

No offense, but I'm not intrested. I'm currently locked in to helping out disabled American Vetreans from Iraq. You intrested?

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

First, I am not asking if anyone is interested, but just to review and see how it can be improved. Part of my plan is to provide hunts for disabled veterans and injured active duty members. I commend you for your work.

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

Sorry, not trying to steal the thread.

http://www.dav.org/

Give. These boys have earned it.

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

Shuttel service from the local airport to the camp.

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

Mark,
I think that sounds like a great idea, and if you can find a "veteran lawyer" to help you organize a Non-Profit status organization, then start working sponsors. I'm sure Bowtech would probably throw forth some support along with many other companies that are veteran supporting, such as Sears, Lowes, Chrysler, Lockheed Martin, etc, you may get some sizable contributions, and enough support to make the dream a reality. Start a POLL for a catchy name....seems alike a good place to start as far as the Non-Profit organization, then keep the Camp Name, I like it.

Doug, CPT, USA, Nurse, discharge date Jan 31, 2008.

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

Absolutely! Awesome idea! Wish I was connected enough to help get something like this started. Have you contacted any veterans organizations (VFW, American Legion, etc...), or even the Enlisted or Officer Associations (they may not help directly but maybe they have contacts they could direct you to)? I'm sure there is somebody out there that would be interested AND has the backing to help. Wish you luck on this.

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

Sorry I can't help. Its a great idea though. If I was in your shoes I would get the ball rolling soon. DAV and guys returning home from overseas could use it!

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

I plan to approach the VFW and the American Legion to start off with. But I do fear I will need a big name to get involved to get things really rolling. I don't know any, but am working on that too. Of all the different legacies a man can leave, if mine can be this, I'll be able to go with a smile on my face and peace in my heart.

Shuttle service to the nearest airport and train station are pretty much a given.

I spoke with the JAG once at a social event about this, but it was outside his realm to assist as it is "not related to military duties". I'd really like to meet a lawyer that could help get this off the ground.

DAV is a great organization! I know the Paralyzed Veterans of America (PVA) have a deer hunt here in Iowa every year. But I haven't seen anything about a DAV event.

We are centrally located between 3 Air Force bases and 2 Army posts and Lord only knows how many Reserve/National Guard bases. This would be a cost effective alternate to going to Disney World or Honolulu. Not as exciting as those two, but a place to find a little serenity.

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

It sounds like the hunting and fishing end of things is covered. I think you have to have something for the ladies as well. Maybe a day spa kind of thing and you'll need a play ground for the kids, maybe an equestrian center for the older kids.
Great idea. If I can help with any electrical work you might need let me know. I'd take a week vacation for a worthy cause.

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

Sounds like a very good idea to me. You seem very passionate about this and you should persue it. I admire you for your time and courage to do this for others. It would take a special person with a lot of time to pull this off. If you have it I say go for it. With some time and effort it could easily become a reality I think.

USN VET

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

Don't forget RV hook-ups. This is popular with military folks. The sites are low maint: concrete pad and electrical/sewer/water connections.

Do you have some surrounding area attractions?

You will need to have something for the kids/wives to avoid the 'mancation' accusation. The Disney/Hawaii military lodging is expensive but not in comparison to what it would cost to do the vacation commercially. Don't underestimate this competition.

You need someone to do a break even analyis to assess economical feasibility of supporting the land purchase, salaries, utilities etc with the proposed income. I suspect it will be tight.

Don't forget the Armed Forces Vacation Club. Perhaps, you can sell your vacations on their website: www.afvclub.com

The USCG cabinsat StationTahoe City, CA (North Shore Tahoe) are awesome. IMO, they are one of the best kept secrets in military lodging. They are efficient, fair and provide a Tahoe vacation at a very reasonable rate. The station is run by an E7 and the cabins are run by a high-speed E3. You should visit them if possible. You could benchmark their operation:

http://www.uscg.mil/d11/StaLakeTahoe/A-Frames/default.asp

LCDR Kevin Wilson
USCG Helicopter Pilot
Currently flying a laptopover the darkened waters of grad school

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

AFhunter,

As I told you in the PM yesterday, I think this is a very noble idea! As a fellow current AF servicemember, I applaud your vision and the selflessness of your plan!

Fellow hunters, don't get caught up in the fact that AF is looking for you to send in a donation! He is simply looking for additional ideas, thoughts, concerns, orpossibly a POC who might be interested in listening to his ideas. If we keep saying, "Sorry I can't help you out," then you're taking his message too personally. That's nothis intention as I read it!!

If this were to come to fruition, count me in! I'm not a builder, nor an electrician, nor a wealthy man, but I share your vision of a need for a spot in the midwest where these people who serve our country admirably can enjoy the outdoors and at a fraction of the cost of going elsewhere.

Just my thoughts.

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

I already have 12 electric and water hookups on my property in a 12 acre area that was a campground 10 years ago. I've checked into putting black water tanks in to handle the sewage.

The cabins I pretty much decided on are 4 person cabins. Some will have bunk beds and others 2 full size beds.

Looking at the cost for electricity, upkeep, salaries, and everything else, I came up with $60 per night per cabin with the inclusion of rent for the week and get the weekend free. My long term goal when completed is to have 30 cabins total, 30 RV sites, a community center, and general store.

For additional attractions there are:
Lake Rathbun (huge lake w/golf course, fishing, sport boating) 30 minutes East of here;
Lake Redrock (Iowa's largest lake) 30 minutes North of here;
Stephens Forest State Park (horseback riding) 20 minutes Southwest of here;
1000 Acre Forest (fishing, hiking) 5 minutes Southeast of here;
Knoxville Raceway (Sprint Car Nationals) 20 minutes North of here;
Adventureland Theme Park 1 hour Northwest of here;
Terribles Casino 25 minutes West of here;
Prairie Meadows Racetrack & Casino (Horse Racing) 1 hour Northwest of here;
Tons of golf courses within 30 minutes in every direction;
Indianola Hot Air Classic (Hot Air Balloon Races) 45 minutes Northwest of here;
Pella Tulip Festival (Dutch Festival) 25 minutes Northeast of here;
Living History Farms (working farm from 1800's) 1 hour Northwest of here;
Covered Bridges of Madison County 70 minutes West of here.

There are many things to do in the surrounding area, but the primary goal is to give military families someplace to get away and RELAX! Secondary goal is to give military personnel a place to hunt.

I have listed on my to do list after I get funding to speak with the Governor and get 16 tags per year for either turkey or deer to use during the Disabled/Injured hunts. Right now an NR tag is too expensive as far as I am concerned. With all the publicity that this will bring to the State of Iowa, I don't forsee any problems there.

Thanks to all for your input. Please keep it coming.

Mark

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

bump

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

great idea go for it
first get a non for profit going like already said find a vet lawyer to help. also once you do call all the big hunting company's and the big vet helpers American legion VFW Dav so on. it would take alot of work.
i think the biggest issue would be getting people to trust you. might call some other vet non for profits

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

Actually, trust is not an issue. Having Core Values go a long way to alleviate mistrust when dealing with others. I have taken these values on to my personal life. They are:
1. Integrity First.
2. Service before self.
3.Excellence in all I do.

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

I think it is an awsome idea. Being a former marine with a passion for the outdoors I knowmanymarines thatwould have been deffinetly interested in a place like that. All your planning sounds pretty well laid out. I would deffinetly check into local and state grant possibilities. Even the federal government could help you out as well as corporate sponsers. Good luck, its a wonderful idea and could deffinetly make a huge impact in peoples lifes if you make it happen.

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

good idea govt loves to hand out money if you fill out the paper right.
I was once told my a cpa that if you know how to do the right paper work you could get rich legally getting money from uncle SAM.

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

Will expanding the eligible persons cause the focus to be lost?

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

AF Hunter,

I believe your idea for this endeavor is right on. The onlyproblem I see is thatopening the inclusions to police, firefighters, EMT'scould possiblyrestrict the military members access to the facilities. Just an idea, Is to setup a availability priority schedule. Similar tothe way themilitary has their lodging and Space A availabilty. This is to target thethe groups you are specifially designing this operation for.Another idea isthat active military and DAV's can can reserve a cabin 180 days out, and then the other categorys canreserve 90 days out or whatever criteria you wish. Their is a lot of ways to organize your operation. These are merely some inputs.

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

Good Idea! I have pondered that situation and came to the same conclusions as you. The other approach I am considering is 12 cabins for military 3 for others. Within a 90 day window if I have cabins open, make them available to the other group.

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

i agree i am all for supporting the cops fireman and emts but the men and women coming home and disabled vets should have first draw then let the other draw out of it within some many days of the hunt 90 sounds good to me to.

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

Also, First season Spring turkey - Military related personnel only (Active, disabled, reserve...)
First two weeks in November - Hunts w/celebrities for disabled/injured service personnel.
Youth/disabled season - First priority going to disabled veterans with their children.

Once I have the property, I will also be contacting a neighboring farmer to farm the CRP with the charge of being when he harvests the crops, he leaves one combine width of that year's crop down the center of the land in each field (food plot). The rest of the crops will be his to do with as he pleases. I met this farmer, and know he'll jump at that chance.

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

good idea it would work great for corn

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

Mark,

I think this is a wonderful idea. Troops returning from overseas need to be able to unwind. Make sure that you keep us on the progress. I will come up to help with the building of the site. I do low voltage work and can help Greg out with the high voltage work. How about getting someone like Ted Nugent to support your cause. He may be controversial to some in hunting but he is a big supporter ofthe military.

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

I sent e-mails to Ted Nugent, Lee & Tiff, and Waddell. Never heard back from any of them. I now have an attorney on board and a CPA. Both are helping me along in getting this going.

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

Keep writing them. Once you get something going have a local news crew come out and do a story, with luck it will get picked up and go national.

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

I think it is an awsome Idea, I myself are heading back at the end of this year and would love to have a place to take my family after my deployment. Is there fishing lakes or ponds on the property, my kids love to fish. Please keep us all informed.

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

I have a 7 acre pond (stocked)
1 one acre pond (stocked)
1/2 acre pond (suffered winter fish kill)
2 - quarter acre ponds (also suffered winter fish kill)

The land I am looking at for this endeavor also has a stocked pond about 1/2 acre in size

RE: Attn: Veterans
 

RE: Attn: Veterans **UPDATED**
 

Bottom line, they're not the same. The average firefighter, EMT, mailcarrier or whateverdoesn't experience in a lifetime what a GI on the line experiences in a single firefight. Most policemen will probably never fire a gun in anger or fear. Most of them if they get hurt on the job or injured they get a full pension that's much more than a GI will get. Their medical is taken care of for life etc etc etc. I hate to say it, but it seems like in the firefighter and police business, when ever they get close to retirement or get enough points or years many get in an altercation and end up with "A bad Back" or some such thing. I've seen it too many times to discount the possibility of mischief at play. It's your dream, you can do what you want with it, but I just don't buy into the Post 911 business that all firemen, policemen etc are heros. They volunteer for the job for the bennies, early retirement and locked job security no matter what. You want to make someone a hero simply because of the job they do, pick a teacher in todays classroom under todays rules. Don't mix up your initial idea for helping the GI's to let's have a mixed neighborhood. Heck, teachers would be better than most policemen and firemen.

RE: Attn: Veterans **UPDATED**
 

i do agree in part. 95% maybe even 99% of fireman and emts and police officers never come close to what a GI does in todays world.
I do how ever think if a GI get injured they get benefits. full medical. and a VA disability check around 2500 a month i think.

I do how ever feel most GI get screwed by the va the govt. and the D.O.D when they get out but if they work hard and meet the right people they can get taken care off.

I think the original. idea is best maybe have a domestic heros hunt or something for fireman police and so on.

RE: Attn: Veterans **UPDATED**
 

Although I dont have any statistics to back it up, I would bet that the percentage of policeman and military that have fired a weapon in the line of duty is damn near equal.

I served in the army for 8 years, with a tour in Kosovo. And have since been a police officer for 8 years. The percentage of both careers is very low in firing a weapon. Even with Iraq and Afghanistan.

And wtf are you talking about police and fire volunteering for the job for benefits and early retirement (bothare below standards). You have no clue what your are talking bout. Thats just like someone saying our military is full of kids just wanting some college money.

Have some respect for the people that protect you in hometown and your country.

RE: Attn: Veterans **UPDATED**
 

I am not sure firefighters and police officers should be eligible to enjoy here, but I have the utmost respect for most of them in that line of work. If we damn the whole for the actions of a few, the military would have been damned fromthe very beginning of exsistence.

I used bold italics in this post to differentiate between Davidmil's comments and my responses only. It should not be taken in any other way.

RE: Attn: Veterans **UPDATED**
 

You have your opinion, I have mine. I spent 2 years in Vietnam. I don't know of anyone in the line companies I was in that didn't fire tons of ammo downrange. I remember once having to back off and postpone the war while the squadron took on 11 chinook loads of fuel and ammo. Backing off was out of direct rifle fire. We started with 105 vehicles running and finished the 4 days with 65. We shot ammo by the thousands. The difference in Military and your home town heros, when you're in a war zone you do it 24/7. My longest stint in the woods was 43 days hunting. Admittedly, admin types in the rear and support people rarely fired a shot. Fireman work what, 2 or 3 days a week. Police work a shift. As far as teachers staying late... they can't. Lawsuits and claims of touching etc have gotten things to the point a teacher cannot be alone with someone. When my wife taught the last few years they were told under NO circumstances do you put yourself alone with a child. They're not allowed to give a kid a ride or anything because of lawsuits. They are required by law to have a plan to suit each childs need. Extremely difficult with the inclusion rules. Teachers today are more like a warden because the laws and liberals demand no one be left behind and throw all in a big pot.

Below is a crop from Vietnam statistics. If you'll note, the highest casualty rate for all MOS's including aircraft, helicopters, infantry and all was armored cavalry crewman. We lost 27 percent KIA. Don't tell me we didn't shoot bullets. This is from National Archive Statistics.

http://www.rjsmith.com/kia_tbl.html