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RE: Antler Restiction programs ...are you for or against them?
ORIGINAL: GregH ORIGINAL: PreacherTony ORIGINAL: nctaxi With all this talk about genetics, how come no one mentions the doe? I have to believe that AR's are more to do with addressing age in these cases. Larger antlers = older bucks (usually). I'll be honest ... I am for them for bigger racks ..... it'll makea difference ..... a huge one? I dunno .... If the spikers and the forks are not fair game anymore, OR you have to use your doe tag ........ there's a ? ......does a fork horn become a doe for the purpose of filling your tag out? Anyway, ... I digress ..... |
RE: Antler Restiction programs ...are you for or against them?
ORIGINAL: early in Does nobody think the mental make up (smarter)of a given buck over time/ARis spread through his genesto new generations? It does with humans over generations because of education, why wouldn't it with deer? |
RE: Antler Restiction programs ...are you for or against them?
Hey we made it to 20:D
Preach is this your first one? AR's Rock[8D] |
RE: Antler Restiction programs ...are you for or against them?
I think I’ve figured out one last way to explain it.
You are hung up on EI’s older deer with superior genetics, I have never once even remotely alluded to that. Take a group of 50 bucks, half with “good” genes, half with “bad” genes. As 1.5’s you don’t know which is which, the DEER don’t even know who has the better genes. You have a 50/50 chance of a buck passing bad genes. Now let them grow and mature. At 4.5 years old, there is going to be a larger disparity between the “good” gened bucks and the “bad” gened bucks. When push comes to shove (literally) for breeding rights, the good gene bucks will do the lion’s share of the gene passing. So you’ve improved your odds of passing good genes. Notice no where in my example did I mention inches of antler or “smart” genes. Good genes & bad genes criteria is left SOLELY to the deer and natural selection. I know the bucks with the biggest inches of antler aren’t necessarily the most dominant and that a bunch of other factors come into play. All I am advocating as that the bucks are allowed to grow up and figure that out for themselves. It’s a win-win. The deer get to do their thing as evolution intended and hunters get to see a few more big mature bucks (hopefully) One last disclaimer…… I know I spent all this time arguing and making a case for passing on the best genes possible for the deer, but I fully realize a wild free ranging herd’s genes can’t really be affected to any significant degree…AND I also (at least where I live) feel that in all but the rarest of occurrences, even a “bad” gene buck, is going to be a whopper if left to mature. |
RE: Antler Restiction programs ...are you for or against them?
Buck walks under your stand as a 1.5 yr old.....2 points on each side.....but a respectable body. Mills around for 10 minutes......and feeds off. You could have killed him with your pocket knife. He sure is dumb.
FF one year....same tree.....same buck walks under your stand and beds down for 20 minutes. He's sportin 3 to a side, now......but the AR's say he's off limits as a 2.5yr old in your zone. Nevertheless.....he's cagey. FF another year.....same tree.....same buck.....and he's got 4 on both sides, now, as a 3.5 yr old. He's standing underneath you again. Youre witnessing nothing short of a miracle. This guy's the one you want in your gene pool.....yet he's only fell short of suicide by not helping you sight in your bowand by not applying the 10-ring sticker, provided. Hopefully it's opening day....and he hasn't spread the love, yet. He is a true patriarch of the forest. Any deer or hunters' feelings hurt in the aforementioned depiction is strictly coincidental....and was not intended. (I was poking fun;)) In reality....speaking for PA.....Rybo's #3 point back there spelled out the NEED for AR's in HIS STATE, to me. It was a STRONG point.;) |
RE: Antler Restiction programs ...are you for or against them?
ORIGINAL: Germ Hey we made it to 20:D Preach is this your first one? AR's Rock[8D] BTW .... you made it to 10,000!       |
RE: Antler Restiction programs ...are you for or against them?
No I don't agree at some levels. I think that deer are smarter from experience and from learning from older deer. How many guys have been busted by an old doe, and her teaching her fawns to look up? If you raise a fawn to adulthood, it doesn't know any different. It has to be taught to some extent. You could take the child of the 2 smartest people in the world and stick it on a deserted island with the 2 biggest idiots in the world and you are gonna end up with a dumb kid with good genetics.
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RE: Antler Restiction programs ...are you for or against them?
Does nobody think the mental make up (smarter)of a given buck over time/ARis spread through his genesto new generations? It does with humans over generations because of education, why wouldn't it with deer? |
RE: Antler Restiction programs ...are you for or against them?
ORIGINAL: rybohunter I think I’ve figured out one last way to explain it. You are hung up on EI’s older deer with superior genetics, I have never once even remotely alluded to that. Take a group of 50 bucks, half with “good” genes, half with “bad” genes. As 1.5’s you don’t know which is which, the DEER don’t even know who has the better genes. You have a 50/50 chance of a buck passing bad genes. Now let them grow and mature. At 4.5 years old, there is going to be a larger disparity between the “good” gened bucks and the “bad” gened bucks. When push comes to shove (literally) for breeding rights, the good gene bucks will do the lion’s share of the gene passing. So you’ve improved your odds of passing good genes. Notice no where in my example did I mention inches of antler or “smart” genes. Good genes & bad genes criteria is left SOLELY to the deer and natural selection. I know the bucks with the biggest inches of antler aren’t necessarily the most dominant and that a bunch of other factors come into play. All I am advocating as that the bucks are allowed to grow up and figure that out for themselves. It’s a win-win. The deer get to do their thing as evolution intended and hunters get to see a few more big mature bucks (hopefully) One last disclaimer…… I know I spent all this time arguing and making a case for passing on the best genes possible for the deer, but I fully realize a wild free ranging herd’s genes can’t really be affected to any significant degree…AND I also (at least where I live) feel that in all but the rarest of occurrences, even a “bad” gene buck, is going to be a whopper if left to mature. |
RE: Antler Restiction programs ...are you for or against them?
ORIGINAL: nctaxi No I don't agree at some levels. I think that deer are smarter from experience and from learning from older deer. How many guys have been busted by an old doe, and her teaching her fawns to look up? If you raise a fawn to adulthood, it doesn't know any different. It has to be taught to some extent. You could take the child of the 2 smartest people in the world and stick it on a deserted island with the 2 biggest idiots in the world and you are gonna end up with a dumb kid with good genetics. |
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