Antler Restiction programs ...are you for or against them?
08-05-2008 | 10:33 AM
#181
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,682
Likes: 0
From: Michigan/Ohio
RE: Antler Restiction programs ...are you for or against them?
Rybo there it is in a nutshell
Unless some are willing to have 700+ hunters in the woods like in NY, PA, MI and other states to really see what it is like, I say stay out[8D]
We kill more bucks in MI than NC kills deer[&:] We have 1.8 millon deer
If I was a deer manager in these states, I would use OBR or an AR. In some places just to piss a few more people off, I would make them a Spread Restriction[8D]
Unless some are willing to have 700+ hunters in the woods like in NY, PA, MI and other states to really see what it is like, I say stay out[8D]
We kill more bucks in MI than NC kills deer[&:] We have 1.8 millon deer
If I was a deer manager in these states, I would use OBR or an AR. In some places just to piss a few more people off, I would make them a Spread Restriction[8D]
08-05-2008 | 10:38 AM
#182
Dominant Buck
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 21,043
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Antler Restiction programs ...are you for or against them?
1. Much of whatI read says that genetic makeup/potential CANNOT be determined from 1st year racks. So you have just as much chance at killing the next booner whether you shoot a forky or a basket 8.
2. What I (my opinion only) is that, a healthier herd is one that allows the deer to grow and reach thier potential and lets THEM sort out who breeds. (to the best extent possible).
To me....you're kinda looking at this from an "Affirmative Action" POV.
3. Bucks eluding hunters in PA have nothing to do with being the best at elduing hunters nad being the best natural selection tool, it ALL has to do with random luck.
4. The significance of small(less points) bucks living real long and dilluting down the gene pool is statistically insignificant. We are not over run with mature 4 pts like the gloom & doomers predicted.
5. No one said AR's are perfect, and I know they have thier short comings. BUT unless you can get a VAST majority of people to buy in to QDM, one of the few ways to achieve saving a few more bucks each season, is implementing an AR program
Great post there, Ryan.
We kill more bucks in MI than NC kills deer[&:] We have 1.8 millon deer
Really? How many bucks did you kill, last year? (Michigan)
08-05-2008 | 10:45 AM
#183
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,210
Likes: 0
RE: Antler Restiction programs ...are you for or against them?
With all this talk about genetics, how come no one mentions the doe? She carries HALF the dna, regardless of how you cut it. So you could have great genes from one and not the other, where are you gonna get? You can practice QDM all you want and AR but if you don't have the genes, which are carried by both the breeding pair, you aren't gonna get what you all are envisioning. The only thing AR do is try and limit the age of harvested deer, giving you more time to see what kind of genes you have. But this is guestimating at best. Recent studies have shown that the majority of doe are bred by young deer, not the old mature deer that we used to think. In fact this study showed that some does would not breed to the older study deer and would in fact only allow the younger deer to breed with them. Actually witnessed it on a Drury show, where they hinted at this study.
08-05-2008 | 10:55 AM
#184
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,682
Likes: 0
From: Michigan/Ohio
RE: Antler Restiction programs ...are you for or against them?
ORIGINAL: nctaxi
With all this talk about genetics, how come no one mentions the doe? She carries HALF the dna, regardless of how you cut it. So you could have great genes from one and not the other, where are you gonna get? You can practice QDM all you want and AR but if you don't have the genes, which are carried by both the breeding pair, you aren't gonna get what you all are envisioning. The only thing AR do is try and limit the age of harvested deer, giving you more time to see what kind of genes you have. But this is guestimating at best. Recent studies have shown that the majority of doe are bred by young deer, not the old mature deer that we used to think. In fact this study showed that some does would not breed to the older study deer and would in fact only allow the younger deer to breed with them. Actually witnessed it on a Drury show, where they hinted at this study.
With all this talk about genetics, how come no one mentions the doe? She carries HALF the dna, regardless of how you cut it. So you could have great genes from one and not the other, where are you gonna get? You can practice QDM all you want and AR but if you don't have the genes, which are carried by both the breeding pair, you aren't gonna get what you all are envisioning. The only thing AR do is try and limit the age of harvested deer, giving you more time to see what kind of genes you have. But this is guestimating at best. Recent studies have shown that the majority of doe are bred by young deer, not the old mature deer that we used to think. In fact this study showed that some does would not breed to the older study deer and would in fact only allow the younger deer to breed with them. Actually witnessed it on a Drury show, where they hinted at this study.
Jeff we killed around 150,000 bucks during MI firearm season, not counting ML or archery[:-]
Me I did not kill any bucks, just does. None came buy that were big enough or limping[:-]
Total 2007
450,000 deer With about a 65% bucks 35% does
08-05-2008 | 10:56 AM
#185
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,075
Likes: 0
From: Northwest suburbs, Illinois
RE: Antler Restiction programs ...are you for or against them?
With all this talk about genetics, how come no one mentions the doe? She carries HALF the dna, regardless of how you cut it. So you could have great genes from one and not the other, where are you gonna get?
I always thought that was very interesting. Don't you?
08-05-2008 | 11:02 AM
#186
Dominant Buck
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 21,043
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Antler Restiction programs ...are you for or against them?
With all this talk about genetics, how come no one mentions the doe?
One half of a deer's genetics comes from the doe. I think this fact is oft overlooked.
And Duke corrected me.
08-05-2008 | 11:07 AM
#187
Thread Starter
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,679
Likes: 0
From: Heaven is my home, temporarily residing in WNY :)
RE: Antler Restiction programs ...are you for or against them?
ORIGINAL: nctaxi
With all this talk about genetics, how come no one mentions the doe?
With all this talk about genetics, how come no one mentions the doe?
08-05-2008 | 11:16 AM
#188
Site Buck Guru
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,922
Likes: 0
From: Racine, Wisconsin
RE: Antler Restiction programs ...are you for or against them?
ORIGINAL: PreacherTony
because AR's are really about antler size for most .......whether they want to admit it or not .....
ORIGINAL: nctaxi
With all this talk about genetics, how come no one mentions the doe?
With all this talk about genetics, how come no one mentions the doe?
I have to believe that AR's are more to do with addressing age in these cases. Larger antlers = older bucks (usually).
08-05-2008 | 11:18 AM
#189
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,682
Likes: 0
From: Michigan/Ohio
RE: Antler Restiction programs ...are you for or against them?
ORIGINAL: PreacherTony
because AR's are really about antler size for most .......whether they want to admit it or not .....
ORIGINAL: nctaxi
With all this talk about genetics, how come no one mentions the doe?
With all this talk about genetics, how come no one mentions the doe?
A point often left out. It truly is all about the antlers
08-05-2008 | 11:22 AM
#190
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,368
Likes: 0
From: Mont County, Pa
RE: Antler Restiction programs ...are you for or against them?
Does nobody think the mental make up (smarter)of a given buck over time/ARis spread through his genesto new generations? It does with humans over generations because of education, why wouldn't it with deer?