Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

:)

Looks good for Hunsucker[8D]

MO what do you think?

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

More details dude. Extends them to what, where, who, etc.?

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

Oh man.....I'm not sure I feel like gettingall riled up today. I have mixed emotions on it, really. I'm actually for the AR's, but I don't like the way they're doing it. They SAY it's about killing more does....Oh, really?? Well then, why is it that in some of the counties that AR's are implemented the doe season isn't open, and we can only kill one doe out of those counties??? Hmmmm....could it be, those counties are already known to have some big bucks??? Could that be it??? Um, yeah. I would say so.

They can color it whatever shade they want, but state mandated QDM is about one thing, and one thing only. BIG BUCKS. And what do big bucks equal? That's right, big bucks.

And, why would you only implement them is PART of the state?? Why not all or nothing??? Doesn't make any sense to me.

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

For the last couple of years, AR's were only in 19 counties. I believe it's 36 this year. Roughly half of the state.

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

65 counties now have the 4 on a side. North half of the state minus 4 counties on the North east side .


Mobow it went from 29 to 65, if you joined the QDMA you would no more about your state[8D]

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

sweet, i like it!

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

I've been for them and put my .02 worth in during the meetings this year. My main hunting county (yes it's a Big Buck Co as mobow put it) was added to the list. I will say that it is hard to get some folks to shoot does sometimes. There are two in our group that don't even buy doe tags which results in too many does on our property.

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

I personally hate STATE MANDATED AR's. What gives the state the power to decide whatsomeone should be happy with shooting! I hope they never make it down to SEMO.

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

You know what I agree, the state should not mandate anything IMO;)

No bag limits
Seasons
weapon's
Etc

Lets have a free for all[8D]

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

How sad for the hunters of Missouri, some of your choice has been eliminated because of a few antler obsessed fools. Indiana lost it's two buck rule the same way, and it hasn't changed a damned thing in five years. Be careful what you wish for, you may get it. [&o]

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

So if and when this work how much are they going to crank up the non res fee's due to this. Then Iowa will get pissed off again and raise theirs then IL will follow suit. *Actually Iowa started this whole non resident pricing rage with MO*[:@]

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

Antler restrictions have nothing to do with deer herd management as the others on your list Germ.Atleast not in numbers,it does manage antler size.

IMO,that should be left up to individual landowners and hunters.


I personally hate antler restrictions.My kids should be able to shoot a buck,regardless of antler size.I choose not to shoot small bucks,peronall choice.I do not wish to impose my beliefs on someone else'sbeliefs though.I do wish some on the property I hunt would be more selective but who am I to tell them what they should shoot.


Ifa state mandates earn a buck,I have no problem with that,that is a MANAGEMENT tool,not a money making tool.

Look at the price of out of state tags for Illinois,and they aren't geetting cheaper.This is what it is about.Revenue and it won't be long before it becomes too expensive for many to hunt their own state.

IMO,good solid deer management will have better antlers as a by product.But shouldn't be FORCED upon those that do not want it.

Again,just one mans opinion.;)

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

Oh I am favor of OBR;), but I am looking at it for a states point of view only.

If you were in charge of reducing deer herd in KY, how would you do it. KY did it by going to OBR IMO.
There are two choices

OBR
AR

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

Now that is completely false statement;) Just showing, something changed:D

State P&Y entries / ratios in 1998 P&Y entries / ratios in 2004
Indiana-----------52------1 in 2056----------------------------130-------1 in 763
Pennsylvania--------41----1 in 8,004---------------------------------86-------1 in 3,308
Missouri-----------56------1 in 1739---------------------------136-------1 in 694


Let's look at a state that has done diddle for management

Michigan-------------68----1 in 5,147---------------------------------60------1 in 5,166

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

I do not know where i stand on this subject. I personally pass on smaller bucks even though i never shot a buck. I mainly pass just because i am hunting on my cousins land and we practice strict management. I am fine letting a small fork pass me when i know next year he will be better. However here in PA on public land i think i would take the first deer that met the antler requirements......it all depends on where i am

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

I'm from the lower half of MO and wish they would extend it statewide but I'm after big bucks (as in antlers).

Mobow is right about the big bucks (as in $$$$). MO has seen the revenue it's neighbor IL has generated with they're big bucks (as in antlers) and I'm sure MOwants to follow suit. I started hunting IL back in '96 and the price of nonresident tag was around $100. Now it's what....$450. Ridiculous.

Of course the price of the IL tags could be due to the liberal politicians in IL trying to drive all hunting out of business, but that's another story.;)

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

I know you were looking for the states opinion,but I was responding to this with my personall opinion and got a little long winded.[8D]

I think Ky has done fantastic job with reducing herds to managable numbers without antler restrictions.There are a couple areas that are still overpopulated that I would not be surprised to see earn a buck instituted but in those areas,you can kill as many does as you want so the system will probably be cheated by those that are serious head hunters.All they need to do is just call in a doe,and the buck will be "earned".Nothings perfect I guess.[&:]

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

We've talked:D
Ky rocks IMO and I would take their system in a heartbeat here in MI.

In states with multiple buck tags, and hunters are not willing to go to obr. AR's are the best system to reduce buck harvest in multi-buck tag states IMO

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

The reason i like the one buck in INDIANA is there are hunters out there that think they just can't shoot a doe .I guees they feel if they shoot a doe thats going to hurt there status as being the great white hunter [give me a break:eek:] I get into it with hunters at work that hate the one buck deal so i tell them up front , your the reason they went that way you think you have to shoot a trophy buck which there nothing wrong with that but then you say your now going to hunt just for meat then you go out an shoot another buck so you can show every one you shot two bucks ,then i ask them why can't you just go out an shoot a doe.Why should i shoot a doe when i can shoot another buck. And then i would say why so you can cripe that there are no big bucks out there next year, or all i see is small bucks and alot of does.THATS WHY I'M GLAD THEY WENT TO ONE BUCK A YEAR.

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

St. Charles and St. Louis counties are the only 2 counties that are currently under Ar and not allowed unlimited does. The reason being is that those are urban counties that haveplenty of managed hunts that more than do their job of controling doe populations.

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

the 36 counties mobow was talking about was the number of counties that was added to the current ones.

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

The belief that AR's in and of them selves grow "trophy" deer is laughable. :D

All an AR does is let a buck live one more year. BUT at least he's a little smarter and has a slightly better chance at surviving on his own. Most on here still don't consider a 2.5 yr old a "trophy" in the sense of having a huge rack.

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

What are you even talking about? MO has roughly a third of the cost for a NR tag as compared to IA, IL, and KS. There is no "pricing rage" as far as MO is concerned. MDC does a pretty good job of allowing biology dictate decisions while trying to balance hunter demands. At one time (maybe still), they tacked on a little token increase for our NR from those three states. If it were about generating $ in the form of NR fees, there would already be higher prices for our deer, and much higher prices for our turkeys.

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

As far as the AR's go...I amfor restrictions, but do not feel 4 on one side is the best. Better than nothing, but not one that will give the best results. There are a whole lot of yearling bucks in MO that have 4 on at least one side.

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

Well I will say that I do not agree with the AR rules. I think a person deer hunting and having a good time or a kid out for his first deer should be able to shoot whatever they want to shoot.. (or any persons first buck, young guy or gal or a kid hunting outside the youth season) What people need to do is teach better QDM from the get go. QDM takes a whole lot more than just not shooting smaller bucks (different topic).. Not to mention that it's possible to begin breeding bad genetics. Wouldn't it be funny to start seeing a property full of 5 and 6 year old fork horns and 6 pointers. Several reasons I don't agree with it. Just another rule to limit what you can do while hunting, should be personal choice. # of points just isn't the answer.

Plus.. I know there are many factors such as nutritionbut if it's about bigger racks and trying to have big bucks like IL let me say that in IL you can take 2 bucks a year and there are no antler restrictions yet they continue to produce very large deer. (yes slug guns only, I know) There are some big deer out of MO already, I mean they are nestled between IL, IA and KS.. Maybe it will help but I still don't totally agree with it. I think they need to get poaching under control in MO more than antler restrictions. Just my opinion though..

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

Saved me a bunch of typing, from the "I'm from Southeast Missouri" part even down to the "started hunting Illinois around 1996" or so part. I even would have said the part about the liberal governors, though I may have thrown the word "communist" in there somewhere. [8D]

Thanks. :)

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

i've seen twice in this thread that someone has said that a kid should be allowed to shoot any deer they want but all you have to do is read and it specifically states that youth seasons are not under these restrictions.

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

I personally don't like it and never will. All they are trying to do is increase Non Resident tag sale in turn making more money for them selfs and land owners that lease the ground. Before too long the common man will not be able to afford to hunt. Yes in Southern Missouri we do have alot of state and government ground to hunt but it is already very crowded and it will only get worse if they continue with this money making agenda they have now.

Earn a buck is a better way to manage the population that this.

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

Wrong. Franklin, Gasconade, Phelps....Shoot, there's quite a few more.

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

I like the AR's but I'm not so sure it's about money. If the state wanted more money, a increase in our tag prices would the easiest. Non-residents get a bargain compared to surrounding states. Revenue created from bigger bucks will take years toproduce.

On the other hand, if there ultimate goal is to grow bigger bucks, theywould not allow us to shoot 3 bucks.

The AR's are a start in the right directionbut MO still has work to do in big buck management to compete with IA, IL, and KS.

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

Exactly on both statements! Another counter to the conspiracy theory debate of "money for the state" is the fact that the "state" doesn't get money brought in from tag sales. The MDC is it's own governing body. Any money raised goes back into their budget, not the state's general fund. They have a whole lot of easy ways to generate higher income from license sales if that was their goal. Higher NR doe tags, higher NR turkey tags,make hunting license a requirementfor archery deer hunting, etc.

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

BUT, you cannot justify an major increase in tag prices w/out having the big bucks. Do you honestly think people would pay Illinois what they want for a non res tag if they didn't have the big ones?? No way.

It's all a process, and growing the bigger bucks is one of the steps. The one thing I am glad for is that the MDC IS it's own governing body, and the state doesn't get any of that. Or do they? In order for a conservation agent to have the same legal ....hierarchy, for lack of a better term, as the state patrol, they HAVE to be tied to the state somehow, yes? Otherwise, where does their authority come from?

Think of this.....If they would have implemented all the changes they want to, and done it all in one year.......There would have been a revolt. Firearms season gets moved to after the rut, AR's implemented statewide, archery tags good for one buck, or even go to just a deer tag, not archery/firearm tags.....and we can only get 1 buck per year.....And on top of that, raise res and non res tags......do that all in one year and see what happens.


And the 3 buck/year thing is a moot point, IMO. Seriously, just because we CAN shoot 3 a year.....How many actually kill more than 1?? I bet it's a pretty low percentage.

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

Not sure what those %'s are, but I would agree that they are probably low. Never done 3, but have done 2 in a season twice in 5 years and spend a ton of time on stand to do that.

I'm afraid that the possibility of taking 2 bucks during archery season won't last much longer.

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

A whole lot kill more than one. One with a bow, one with a gun. Easy to do. Now...I am sure the number that kills 3 drops considerably.

Agents get their authority from the MDC MO code of regs which is part of MO's state constitution. MDC's money is MDC's money...that is the way our state constitution is set up. By and large, the MDC gets their operating budget from the whatever less than one percent sales tax, along with private donations.

I am not saying you won't ever see an increase in NR fees. I am saying that in no way do I think that is the motivation behind regs that tweak our deer herd. Everyone certainly has their own opinions...and often folks choose to believe that everything everyone does has some kind of negative motivation. I happen to believe that MDC actually wants to manage our herd for population control and health first, while balancing out the needs/desires of all hunters (end users). Pretty tall order considering the extremely wide range of hunter opinions, methods, needs, and desires.No doubt about it, there is a growing number of MO residents that would like to see efforts to maximise our state's buck potential and provide us more trophy opportunity.

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

I've always heard that the state didn't get any of that, and I never understood how the agents have their authority. That answers it, thank you.

I don't see it as negative motivation, just a fact in the world we live in. Money is the motivator of just almost everything. It's a shame, but it is what it is.

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

Yep. So what if MDC raises more money thru NR fees? Then what? They purchase more land, improve existing areas, offer more landowner assistance, or hire more agents. I have a hard time seeing bad in that.

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

this year is the first year the antler restrictions are in m y county its good in some ways and bad in others

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

I agree with you robin. As long as thats what they use it for and not misuse it. Unfortunately the MDC is still a government agency and I have a hard time trusting some government agencies.[>:]
Overall I trust the MDC so far but it only takes one thing to change the opinion of the masses.

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

I hunt mostly NW MO which has had the AR for a couple of years now and I know I've seen an increase in bucks and their headware. NowI've practiced QDM before the restrictions were in place so the restrictions never bothered me. I personally don't shoot anything that isn't going on the wall and its only going on the wall if its going in MO Big Bucks(140). I'll just shoot does and be fine with it.

RE: Missouri Extends Antler Restrictions
 

I am fromN Arkansas and we dont have many big buck's I wish we had County antler restrictions instead of state.Does any other state have county restriction's?