quiksilver

Just looking over some stuff here - I found some data that I thought was particularly interesting...

As a matter of background, I read this brief passage authored by Chuck Alsheimer, who I consider to be one of the planet's top authorities on whitetail behavior.

The crux of the article is that the rutting moon arrives with the second full moon after the autumnal equinox. According to Chuck, the best 8 days to be in the woods are the 4 days before and after the Rutting moon arrives. This is widely known as the "seeking phase."

Using 2007 as a guide, the dates fell as follows:
[ul][*]Autumnal Equinox: 9/23/07[*]First Full Moon: 9/26/07[*]Second Full Moon: 10/26/07[/ul]By his calculation, last year, the prime time to arrow a buck would have been between 10/22 and 10/30.

Sounds good, right?

Not so fast.

Last year, we conducted a site-wide poll, and it turns out that this timeframe was not the best time, statistically. With 133 recorded buck harvests, it turns out that 35% of the bucks harvested fell between 11/1 and 11/10, while only 18% died between 10/21 and 10/31. Weird.

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2726184&mpage=1&key=timing&# 2726184

See for yourself.

So by Alsheimer's lunar calendar, this year's seek phase come much later:
[ul][*]Autumnal Equinox: 9/22/08[*]First Full Moon: 10/14/08[*]Rutting Moon: 11/13/08[/ul]
http://kalender-365.de/lunar-calendar.php?yy=2008 Lunar Calendar

If you go +/- 4 days on the rutting moon, Chuck tells us that this year's peak seek phase will fall between 11/9 and 11/17/08.



So does anyone have any rational explanation as to why our results in 2007 didn't match up with Adelsheimer's prediction?




To take a stab at answering my own question, I'd have to say that our numbers are directly linked to when the Average Joes schedule their hunting vacations - which is usually the first two weeks of november. Also, my journal shows abnormally high temps during the end of October - so that may have played a factor in suppressing the activity levels for a week or so.

Germ

Not really IMO the peak rut is the same time every year. Right around Nov 15th by me.

Justin

1. Temps were HOT last year. I know for a fact that daytime temps were over the 45* mark every day when I was hunting during the end of October. That will definitely suppress deer movement, especially big bucks.

2. I personally believe the best time to see and kill bucks during the rut is the chasing phase, not the seeking phase. At least in the areas I hunt most of the seeking seems to be done at night. The chasing it what gets the big bucks off their feet during daylight hours, when they're hot on the trail of estrous does. That phase comes about 4-8 days after the rutting moon, which put it from about Oct 31-Nov 8 last year.

I think we're going to see a later rut this year with the way the moon falls, which means that the deer are going to get smashed during gun season. Although only time will tell, now won't it?

mobow

I think your own answer may defintely play a part in it. Now, it's widely known that I'm not...what you might call, a highly succesfull buck hunter. I NEVER see bucks before November. Never. Until last year. I was seeing bucks for about 10-12 days prior toHalloween, the earliest I've ever seen them while on stand. So, Chuck's prediction may be a little more accurate than our poll shows.

That being said...I honestly feel that the 3 phases are actually pretty consistent year to year. I think that if you're in the woods Nov. 3-Nov.15 you're gonna be spot on. Because if photoperiodism really is what triggers it, it would stand to reason that whatever that amount of light is would fall on the same day year after year, or very close to it anyway. I think this being a leap year has it messed up a little bit too.

huntingson

My dad said the EXACT same thing when Alsheimer first came up with his theories. So, of course, I agree with my dad (not to mention every year I have checked Alsheimer has been wrong except for when his predictions putit in the middle of November). In his defense though he doesn state that his theories are for the "north".

Right around November 4 is my favorite day to be in the woods. The does aren't quite in heat, but the bucks are going nuts.

quiksilver

It will definitely be interesting to see what happens - because the rutting moon falls almost 3 weeks later than it did last year.

Our year-end buck harvest poll for '07 showed a pretty nice bell-curve centered right around the first week of November. This year, we should see some marked discrepancies.

I still think we'll see a spike in harvests during the first 2 weeks of November for '08, but that may be more of a factor of vacation timing and archery season deadlines. Stay tuned...

HuntingBry

I think that Charlie's moon phases are a good guideline, but the only way to know when the activity is hot is to be out there. For example, on one property the activity was going ape s--- from around Nov. 1- Nov. 9. About 10 miles away I saw zero rut activity during that time. About Nov. 13 bucks were chasing like crazy on that property 10 miles away. On still another property, I saw a ton of chasing activity from Nov. 14-Nov. 25.

Now those dates aren't that far off, but if you're trying to plan a week vacation those variations can become critical and only one of those examples fell within Charlie's moon phase dates. So, do your homework, go by what you see, and trust your gut while using the experts' information as a guideline. Charlie's good, but it's not gospel.

Germ

The rut is triggered by daylight becoming shorter.

How does
Moon
Temps
wind
tides

or anything else affect the days getting shorter Temps can affect deer movement, but not the rut. The Rut happens around the same time every year. Jim's Dad is the smartest man in the world

quiksilver

I tend to agree on the photoperiodism, Gary... But Charlie says that the Pineal Gland is the real controller of the estrous cycle, and it's triggered by exposure to moonlight.

I, for one, would like to read whatever scientific literature he's relying on - with regard to the Pineal Gland - as it relates to estrous and moonlight. I have a hard time swallowing that.

If light at nighttime really triggers the estrous cycle - then couldn't a doe be thrown into estrus by bedding too close to a dusk-to-dawn light? What's so special about moonlight? How does this Pineal Gland work?

JoeRE

I think Alsheimer is very astute about whitetails but the one thing I disagree with him on is what triggers rut timing. Photoperiodism and moon cycles may trigger it in a general sense but I am certain weather of September and October is a defining factor for triggering the 'peak' of the chase/seek phase. I know it can swing the 'peak' a few days one way or the other.

Last Oct was very warm and dry and as a result the 'peak' of the chase/seek phase was slightly later last year than the previous 2 year. Locally, it peaked around Nov 3-6th. Deer movement & sign (rubs and scrapes) were less through September and October. The two years before that had peaks occuring through Oct 29-Nov 2.