Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

Some one who understands the logistics of clothings heat retention better than Iplease answer this for me....[/align][/align]If I were to purchase a set of insulated with wind stop fleece outer wear...... [/align][/align]What good would the outerfleece do as an insulator with the "wind block" being on the back side of the fleece with the wind blowing? Would the wind not blow thru the fleece and hit the wind stop negating the fleeceto useless as an insulator in the wind?[/align][/align]I understand the inside insulation of the garmentswould still insulate as the wind could only cut thru the outer fleece until it hits the wind block..... [/align][/align]Just the outer fleece seems useless in the winds to me? Am I missing something?[/align][/align]I have never wore fleece as an outer layer, only as an insulating layer.[/align]

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

The insulation comes from having low thermal conductivity. Fleece has really low thermal conductivity. So its cold on the outside and warm an the inside, the fleece creates a barrier between the two, otherwise the natural need to reach equilibrium would cause you to loose heat. The wind stopper prevents the heat you disepate into the fleece from being blown away... It would work on the outside better, but then it'd be noisey and rip, trust me the windstopper makes a difference. fleece is warm up to 8-10 mph winds, then its like wearing a tissue because the fabric is not dense, which is what gives it the warmth..

That being said, I use alot of fleece, I buy all camo outer wear fleece garments and wear them, when the wind picks up I put on my lightweight weight rain gear over top... to put the wind barrier on top.

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

Your question is a logical one, and I've not really looked at it that way before. But, it does work because your body heat is also behind all that. In other words, the wind can blow into the fleece all it wants, but there's no heat there to "blow away." What the fleece does is keep the heat in, not letting it escape. Make sense?

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

Fleece with windblocker is going to be warmer than fleece without windblocker; but best of all is going to be having a gore tex shell over the top of the fleece. Maximum heat retention.

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

think we may have the same fleece/windblocker.....I bought the non windblocker, sicne I palnned to use it on warmer days or as a base layer underneath a windproof jacket.

If just using the fleece as the exterior layer, windblocker would be good, the windblocker lining on the jacket my father bought is louder than mine though, not by much at all, but its like a shell, the non wind blocker is just pure fleece.

The fleece is still warm whether it goes inward or outward. Regular fleece though is typically doesnt stop wind but is very warm, so on calm days or as a underlayer its nice.

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

I use fleece ALOT in the backcountry. It dries out fast and is light. I would concentrate on a textured fleece if you plan on using it exclusively for outer wear. I have a performance fleece that I use and put rain gear on over when the wind picks up. I am switching over to the rivers west backcounty gear this year and it is a textured fleece. It has a 10 year waterproof gaurantee. This way I can use it for dry or wet weather, thus cutting down my weight.

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

This is what I am getting at.... So why would I buy outer wear with half of the insulating properties (the fleece)on the outside of the wind barrier?

What goodis the layer of fleece on the outside of the wind barrier actually doing in a cold wind as far as insulating for me?

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

I think fleece's big advantage is how quiet it is.

I don't like it as an outer layerthough! Cockleburrs and stick tites![:@]

Polar Fleece works great as an underlayer behind Wind Stop. It holds body heat really well, but itis not much good in the direct wind.

Dan

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

To get to the point........ I am "shopping" for new insulated cold weather gear to pack into stand on cold days....

I am debating between the cost savings of getting Dayone insulated fleece with wind block over Gray Wolf Woolens and insulated Wolfskin.

As of now I am leaning towards GWW's..... The fleece as a outer layer has me stumped at it's effectivness in the cold fall / winter winds. I want warm, windproof and light weight....

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

Because wind or no wind, the fleece is still keeping in (insulating) your body heat.

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

I can see what your getting at buckeye. The wind just blows right through the outer fleece since its not very dense and then hitting the windblocker effectively making the outer fleece useless unless there is very little wind.

My suggestion would be to buy the gray wolf stuff or wear the windblocker fleece inside out.:D

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

I would think it's just going to be more comfortable to wear if the wind is really blowing, and certainly more quite.

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

If the wind is blowing thru the fleece......How would it not beblowing the warm air out on the other side of the fleece?

If you were to go outside in a cold wind with a fleece shirt on.... Would you feel the wind cutting thru it?

Would it (the wind) not take the warm air that was retained bewteen your skin and the fleece with it as it passes thru the garment?

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

Someone understands what I am saying! :D

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

I like to use fleece, period. Some time I use it as theonly layer very warm on a cold day an not bulky. The ride on the ATV to where I start my walking is comfortable.

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

Some of the best stuff I own is my Patagonia fleece pullovers. Put on an UA cold gear undershirt.....and a fleece Patagonia.....and I can stand about any temps NC dishes out....without bulking up.

I'm certain my fleece isn't lined......but I'm just as certain of it's thermal value.

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

What temps are you talking about and how long do you sit in the cold? I lived in NC for around a year and only remember the heat :D

I have been cold to many times over the years to put up with it any more.....

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

I know I went in before 5:00AM on the day I'm citing, here....and shot my buck at 8:15AM. I think I climbed down at 10:45 and got home around 11:15.

I can guarantee you I had a layer of fleece on that morning.;)

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

If you only had on an under armor shirt andfleece pullover and sat thru weather in the teens you are a freak of nature.

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

I never said that. I said I can assure you I had on a layer of fleece. I did.

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

What temps are you talking Jeff?

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

I took what you said in your last reply as that is what you were wearing that day....

I wear fleece as an inside insulating layer amost every day of bow season.....

I am just on a quest to find that "perfect" for me, to hot to wear on the walk to stand gear that I can pack in and put on at my tree and not have to worry about dressing in excessive bulky layers to stay warm....

My walks to stand are to far and I sweat to much when I have to many layers on, even if I pack inmy outer garments....

I want to trimmy layers on the cold days so I don't sweat as much on the way inand have a very warm outer layer toput on once I reach my destination.

The land here is very flat and the wind kicks some serious butt in the fall andwinter months here.

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

I only had a walk of about .5 mi......but I walked in with only a coldgear top on (up top;)).

I, too, dress when I get on stand. I climb with my gear in my seat......dress when I get to the right height and set up.

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

No, because the wind isn't getting in that far. Remember, you've got a wind blocker.....And, there's no heat in the fleece itself to be carried off.

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

Not a good ideal to wear fleece as an outside garment. Snow sticks to it as well as sticky burrs. Cheque out north face and columbia cold weather gear and fleece is always used as a liner to keep your body heat in, its made to zipp out from the insideof the windbreaker if need be. I wouldn't ever use fleece as an outside garment while in the bush. Not a good ideal.

Bobby

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

That last scenario was just a "fleece shirt", not with windblocker. Read what's there not what you want it to say killer :D

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

Oh.....yeah I see that now. In that scenario, yes, you would freeze your acorns off. :D

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

Scott:

I hope I didn't mislead or give you the wrong idea about the fleece I wear.

When I mentioned it being good for most NC temps...I'll further explain. I get up most every weekend morning and ride the ATV over to my in-laws (mama in law makes awesome biscuits;)).

During the winter.....the fleece Patagonia and a long sleeve t-shirt or UA Coldgear underneath is the typical garb. It handles that well.

I'd be real interested in a camo fleece outer garment, myself....and MOST days, here....I could wear just what I described. I can't speak to your temps and what I'd have to wear, underneath, when on stand, though.

I know it's quiet....warm...and I'd love to have something to wear hunting (and not just "a" layer.

Peak.....I answered your question in the part you quoted!:D

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

I don't know the technical issues with fleece, only why I like it.

I like the windproof fleece for bow hunting in the cold wind. The inner layer blocks the wind and the outer layer is quiet for movement when drawing and shooting. I have used the stuff in IL at 15 degrees with a 25 mph wind and it works, staying out as much as a full day. Thats why I like it.

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

Ok, if in that scenario the wind would push the warm air out that is on the backside of the fleece, why would it not push the warm air out between the fleece and the windblock?

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

Buckeye the fleecewill onlyprovide a silent outer layer with minimal insulating properties.Most clothing like this relies on the inner insulation for warmth.I use a 4 in 1 parka and a set of bibs both with low nap fleece outers.I wear the bibs and the zip out parka liner walking to my stand to keep me from sweating.When I am on stand I add the outer layer if needed.Ihunt the flat lands of Illinois where the wind also gets going real good and I have no problem staying warm in zero degree weather all day.This is the coat I use.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?id=0005171931157a&navCount=4&podI d=0005171931157&parentId=cat601737&masterp athid=&navAction=jump&cmCat=MainCatcat2071 2-cat601737&catalogCode=XJ&rid=&parentTy pe=index&indexId=cat601737&hasJS=true

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

Parka.
http://ns1.bowsite.org/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=8&User_ID=184392&st= 7768&st2=57366614&st3=-43714342&Product_ID=109&CATID=6

Pull over jacket.
http://ns1.bowsite.org/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=8&Product_ID=59&CATI D=6

Bibs.
http://ns1.bowsite.org/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=8&Product_ID=41&CATI D=7

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

Well, that IS logical. But, there's no real heat there to be blown out. The outer fleece layer is keeping heat IN, not absorbing it.

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

I never implied that there washeat inside the "nap" of the fleece.... I said between the fleece and the windblock.... As in behind the fleece..... Not in the fleece.....

Mechdoc

Those are much the same thoughts as mine...

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

Hey Scott...

I know it's not fleece (it's wool)....but have you ever thought about using this stuff? They make an assortment of garments......including bibs.

I've always liked the looks of it.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?id=0033630932572a&navCount=1&podI d=0033630932572&parentId=cat601740&masterp athid=&navAction=jump&cmCat=MainCatcat4700 76-cat601740_TGP&catalogCode=QX&rid=&pare ntType=index&indexId=cat601740&hasJS=true

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

I have looked it over a couple times... It does look nice.

I have the berber fleece version of this stuff... The fleece is pretty warm, I wear it as a layer underneath my goretex.

My reservations withwool is the weight and poor packability of it.

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

Scott, shoot Cougar Mag a PM about the GWW wolfskin jacket he picked up last year lined with Liteloft... He said it was the cat's meow even after sitting in temps that would have driven him out of his stand previously...

From GWW's site:

3M's THL3 LiteLoft Insulation with Comformax.
If you're looking for warmth this is the combo to get! THL3 LiteLoft is a light weight insulation that is 40% warmer than the popular 200 gram Thinsulate and approx. 20% warmer than Ultra200, which is one of the premium insulations used by some companies. Combine this with the 27 oz. wool that we offer, and you're looking at a garment that is designed for the absolute coldest temperatures nature can throw at you. A minimum of layers is required underneath to stay warm for many hours sitting on stand. NOTE: The wool combined with this lining option is actually too warm for most hunters. Combined with the WolfSkin the Comformax LiteLoft lining gives you a very light in physical weight set of cold weather clothing that will be warmer than any other clothing manufactured on the market with the exception of the wool we offer with the same lining.

Important Feature
On all of our lined garments, the Stealth Fleece lining is not "quilted" to the Comformax or the Comformax LiteLoft. We take the Comformax or the Comformax LiteLoft, cut a piece of Stealth Fleece, and sew the two together along their edges. The result: The insulation maintains it's loft, for maximum effectiveness. This of course takes some additional time but the resulting improvement in quality and performance we think is worth it.

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

http://store.mossyoak.com/detail.aspx?ID=853

This should take you to the description of the rivers west jacket, they have the matching pants and vest also. No need to pack rain gear or worry about the weather turning inclement. There is a 10 year wind and waterproof guarantee.

This is a new generation of fleece that is textured. No need to worry about cockleburs or stickers, and this stuff is very quiet. Not to mention that it keeps the wind out and the warmth in.

The old style fleece would make a questionable over garmet, but this new stuff is the ticket.

You might want to look into the Sitka gear also. I have some first hand knowledge of the 90% pant and jacket. Though Sitka is not fleece, it has great properties for ALL types of weather as does the Rivers West.

RE: Fleece as an outer garment.... Questions.....
 

Scott, GWW Wolfskin is the way to go. I have mine lined with wind stop and layer underneath with UA and Fleece. It has worked Great for a few seasons now.

IMHO Fleece is a very poor outer layer. Works great underneath a Wind Stop layer though;)

Dan