RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

Know one is shoving a crossbow down your throat.;)
You do not have to use one(if passed).

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

I cannot believe how long this one is going on! Dang I just helped move it up the list again.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

I could be wrong, but I think perhapsMatt's paranoiastems from the fact he's a traditional shooter? Again, I could be wrong. Alot of the information he has provided, I read in the Pa OutdoorNews(July 4th edition) as well as from the PGC's web site. Much of this info is "pure speculation", and the "push" is indeed being headed by CB manufacturer's.
I personally hope they keep things the way they are also. CB's don't belong in the woods with compounds and recurves/long bows, but I can live with them in Special Regs WMU's.[&:]

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

LOL........almost until you consider that I've owned (I think) 28 different compounds in the last 6 years alone. :Dand the fact that I have extreme first hand knowledge of what todays top end crossbows are capable of.

My paranoia stems from even the THOUGHT or chance that we as bowhunters are going to lose the hard fought November part of our bowseason.
You PA guys remember what it was like to hunt until Oct 28th and then put your bows away for the season? (and until sunset, not a 1/2 after to boot)
Thank the evil UBP for changing that for you.

If you're OK with potentially losing that and adding more bodies into the archery season with things that aren't what I at least consider bows..........not sure what to tell ya.

Would you proponents be as quick to allow flintlock muzzleloaders for everyone in the archery season too?

I shoot both a very accurate flintlock religiously and a top end crossbow and I can tell you for a FACT that the crossbow will do EVERYTHING that my flintlock will do accuracy and effectiveness wise except flipping them over with a shoulder shot.
If I could kill it with my flintlock I could kill it with a crossbow to the same ranges.

Not guessing..........I shoot them all, recurves , longbows, compounds, crossbows, flintlocks, inlines, revolvers, pistols, shotguns, "assault" weapons you name it.

I simply don't want ANY gambles being made at this point with a season where we already get to hunt IMO too few days of the season. I sure hope I don't get to say "I told ya so" when your casing your bow up at teh end of October and listening to everyone else in surrounding states talking about sweet Novemeber.:eek:

Some of you guys in other states, I don't know what your season dates are or what days of the week you get to hunt but keep in mind:
In PA our bow season runs Oct3rd through November 15th and then IT'S OVER. No straight season through November, December or January.
At one time in the not too distant past our season ended the last weekend in Oct..........AND we still can't hunt on Sundays.

You getting what I'm saying? I don't want some half baked other state driven biology or manufacturers lobbying risking in any way shape or form 2 weeks of our already short ass season.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

the P&Y club I'm guessing


P&Y club

several other states have recently added them - tell me Matt / PAhow are those state's seasons ? Down? Bag limits down? Tens of thousands of converted gun hunters flooding archery seasons?

facts are that none of those fears have happened, ever, not once



crossbows are being pushed more now because of the money it will generate, because it'll bring more people into archery season, give more opportunity, help keep the herds in check ...... all positives, no negative





tell me how many ADIITIONAL bowhunters came into archery season in the past 10 years because of compounds? are you suggesting that just at this very moment your bowhunting has become near a saturation point ?

c'mon man



the very silliest of arguments Matt - you can do better




your flintlock shoots 325 fps? and broadheads ? and no gun powder?

again c'mon man, the very, VERY basic differences of a bow and gun you are trying to ignore, because you're painted into a very very tight corner




you're trying to compare accuracies vs types of weapons - you can likely outshoot most handgun hunters with your compound, many of us can ....... they will NEVER be a bow, nor ever allowed in a bow only season



then never, ever EVER allow a change in archery tackle because of what it MIGHT do.

remember every fall when you got giddy with all the new compounds and upgraded and technology? those things you LOVED because it suited you - and it brought many bowhunters into archery season too didn't it ?

compounds have MADE modern bowhunting - they evolved bowhunting just like crossbows can :)






you're losing hunters Matt - aren't you? every year fewer and fewer people hunt in PA - true of false ?

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

I'm not against Matt's thinking. I don't want archery season jeopardized either, but it is a FACT (look at the PGC's web site) that total number ofhunting license numbers have continously declined over the last 10 years. As far as Pa's archery season goes, I hunt from the beginning of Oct, on and off, through Jan. I hunt through all of the rifle seasons as well. I can't say I have any shortage of hunting time at all. Special Reg's area's are more liberal, no doubt.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

The main deal behind P&Y's 65% rule was to provide 'a clear and demonstrable difference' between compounds and crossbows. That clear and demonstrable difference has been erased, at the overwhelming insistence of bowhunters. If you go back through bowhunting history, back to 1970, and analyze bowhunter success rates, you see a 4-6 point jump every few years. Each of those jumps, every single one, coincides perfectly with a new advance in compound technology.

Now, the technology is so good that there is no statistical difference between bowhunter succes rates and crossbow hunter success rates. So, if allowing the crossbow is going to cut your season, beware the next advance in compound technology. It will put compounds over the top and will be more of a threat to your season than the crossbow would be.

Oddly, I never see a whole lot of comments about what we've got being darn well good enough and encouraging manufacturers to put on the brakes.

I've taken a whole lot of grief over the years on this forum because of warning about the runaway train we've been riding and where technology is taking us. With many states reviewing crossbows' legal status and allowing their unrestricted use in their archery seasons, I find my long held stance to be finally and fully vindicated.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

I see it that we're losing hunters because the quality of the experience and the current direction of the deer managment plan is driving people away. Lets make that experience WORSE and drive MORE away huh?

Who cares if license numbers are dwindling in this argument?........We won't be creating NEW licensed hunters so the point is MOOT. We'll be transposing them to the archery season where it is gonna screw the whole kettle of fish up for those of us who already BOWhunt here and have never asked for crossbows. If anything I'll argue that we'll lose MORE bowhunters because of further encroachments on the season, and more rifle hunters because they will see crossbows and regular bows as further taking away THEIR opportunities and will quit.
If you can speculate one way then I can speculate the other just as easily.


Ok all you armchair out of state PA deer management biologists........tell me this since you are all so familiar with our deer management plan:

If our archery season can handle the influx of crossbow hunters and increased harvest then why aren't we currently allowing the exisiting archers to hunt right up until rifle season like a State like West Virginia or a number of others that neighbor us??

We shut the season down Nov 15th and then no deer are hunted again by any weapon until the Monday after Thanksgiving when the general firearms season opens. That's 2 full weeks in the prime of the fall where NOBODY can hunt deer.
Wouldn't it just make sense to increase the existing opportunities for the current bowhunters approved bows and see if THAT brings in more hunters?

Give us an honest increased opportunity, not an imaginary one by simply including a weapon that doesn't belong or work here.
I would say more days to hunt under the current structure would go further to actually INCREASE new hunter numbers and new license sales than allowing crossbows which will just steal from the exisiting pool with no new REAL opportunities to be afield.

OF course that's all just educated speculation and I'm the only one not allowed to speculate on what will happen here. My arguments are silly and unfounded as analyzed by hundreds and thousands of miles away.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

The funny thing is that some folks act like everybody is gonna go out and spend 1000 bucks (or whatever itcost)on the most powerful, cutting edge crossbow out there. Hell, my dad bought one for less than two hundred dollars out of a catalog. The thing is accurate as hell at short range, but then reaches the point where you could probably outshoot it with his 80lbs drawBear fiberglass recurve bow.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

says YOU........what isn't to compare? They are both held and aimed the same (But the crossbow actuallyhas the advantage of a good scope) they can both be ready to go all day long with no need to draw or hold in the presence of game........you simply put the sights on the target in any opening out to much further than I can shoot with my compound and wait for a broadside shot and pull the trigger. Oh yeah feel free to rest them on your shooting rail if you so choose.
And quite frankly if there was even the hint of rain and I just wanted a deer dead I would take the crossbow over a flintlock or conventional bow.

At any range I would shoot my flintlock which is HELL on deer at ranges I wouldn't dream of shooting my compound, I could get the exact same dead deer result with a crossbow. For all intents and purposes their effectiveness is identical.

And don't quote me the usual crossbow proponent LOWER end crossbow performance to somehow keep crossbows and compound painted with the same brush.......if you let the cheapy 300fps model in you let the 405fps, 155ft lbs of kinetic energy model in too. The one that has more energy at 100yds than an 80lb 30" compound does off the bow........and is more inherently accurate than an open sighted rifle out to that 100 yard mark.

You can THINK you have me painted in to a corner BD but you shouldknow after too many years here that youknow your right, Iknow I'm right and neither of us is EVER gonna change that no matter what we say to each other. The difference is that I LIVE HERE.
So you might as well quit all the fancy quote quote quote this state that state crap because I know what I believe is right for THIS state just like you do so it's a stalemate with us two.........it always has been.