Which way would you go in?
 

Keep in mind that the yellow lines are my usual trails to access my stand already set up in large whit oak, about 10 trds from most active scape and a well know thoroughfare from bedding areas. The yellow dot with red dot inside is the scrape area and my already put up stand. If I came right at it, I believe I would spook and run deer further out of property line and back into the bedding. Would it make a difference to make this an afternoon hunt, or morning, since the bedding is so close, as well as active scrapes.

This other photo shows the north end borderd by a creek and food plot is in the field at edge of tree line.


As I have said earlier that the hunt clubs often run the deer aross the creek (blue line) and into our area...but not until late November. We have stands located at all major creek crossing, and special two tier video stand on corner of clover field.

Any suggestions on how to get to the PRIME spot ( in yellow) without disturbing any bedded, or roaming deer. Would this be a better afternoon or late morning hunt since they will be looking to bed after eating in mid morning?

The red dot (stand) in north part of land bordering creek is wher I shot two bucks, let a few walk, and leveled a nice TOM.

All suggestions are welsome

This is the land with bordering clubs (approximatey 900 acres) Nothing but dogs and if its brown its down yahoos

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

Is there anyway you can gain access to enter using Taylor Creek Rd? If so, I'd walkthe edge of that tree line.

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

This lady moved from california and raises LLamas and alpaco's. She would shoot me if she saw me anywhere near the lama farn.

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

What is that building with 3 red roofs and what appears to be a parking lot? Could you walk in from there? other than that, I don't see anything else really.

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

Thatsachurch, and its a possibility. I may have to grin and bear it through the briars that line the lama field and get in silently that way. My stand is 5 feet from property line, so I may have to sneeak in that way.

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

Which wind do you hunt that stand ? Also, is what we see True North ?

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

That bottom point of the alpha/clover field near the creek looks like a winner to me. Not a morning spot, but evening you should be good to go. Nice funnel.

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

Yep, its true north

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

Yep, I went that way yesterday and was able to come up from the east side of it. Providing the wind is right, it will be my best interest. I made some mock scrapes about every 30-40 yrds west of this location, so close to their bedding that I can stalk up from the east and get in my stand no problem.

Thanks for the advice

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

You made mock scrapes yesterday? Or last year?

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

I have come across several scrapes, with feces and urine in them. I decided to find some overhanging branches to make some mock scrapes far enough apart to make it appear like other deer are using it. No scent, just bubber boots clearing and scraping below the overhanging branch.

These all natural scrapes are just west and east of where the stand is in the yellow. Its 45 yrds from good bedding, and on the way to clover, alfalfa, and the persimmon trees that are on that map just outside the border(on highland rd.).

I cut some lanes yesterday fror two more stands, but they were a 1/2 mle on the other side of food plots, closer to the creeks and a dozen white oak trees.

I will be getting some pictures of all of them by this weekend

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

Bullhockey... you don't have any deer making scrapes at this time of year. Do you really hunt?

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

Unless this deers crap is stillsteaming from last year,I would say its being used. I saw it again tonight, but next time I will bring a cam to take a picture...just for you. This isnt the only scrape I have seen in the 300 acres Ive been scouting

I will make you eat that bullhockey...and then I will ask you if you hunt...I would go on, but that hit an area that really pisses me off to doubt something very obvious to me. If you doubt me, and my hunting and scouting abilities...your life member status merely shows you are one of the northerners that loves to shout out things that you may not see up there.

To answer your question if I hunt? Nah, I just dress the part and eat bologna sandwiches and read pornos on my tree stands... I will refrain from any wore comments on your remarks.

As a matter of fact within a week I will have two members (well respected) from here verify this. And maybe one of them will throw it in your face...I am not in the mood to address a comment like that from someone I dont even know!

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

Bring it on.:D:D Don't be sending me pictures of your mock scrapes either. LOL I'm sorry sunshine, but I can't buy rubs when deer are still growing antlers and are in velvet and scraping at the same time. It JUST doesn't happen. Do you know what a turkey scratching is. LOL

And here's another post of yours that is kind of squirrely.
Every gun I've ever seen or shot, when you have the safety on.... NOTHING happens. And if the gun is empty and the safety is off, you'll only hear "click" one time until the gun is racheted again either through blow back, cocking or whatever.

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

Fine, dont take my word for it. I wont send you any pictures from a year ago, and yes I have enough turkey mounts to know what the difference is between a turkey scrape...turkeys dont poop in their scrapes, and the last time I checked turkey poop is a far cry from looking like deer droppings. Often times bucks will revisit scrapes from last breading season..

Studies have shown that whitetail sperm production extends from mid-August through March (TR. Michaels)

""Find The Deer #15
It is early Spring and you are, of course, scouting for deer sign. Driving along, you notice that some of the deer already have their reddish Spring coats but some don't. You begin by walking a fence line, looking for cross trails. A hundred yards further you find one, it is full of fresh tracks that lead to a low spot under the fence. You notice deer hair clinging to the barbs of the lowest strand of wire. during the early seasons They also creat community scrapes to see who is visiting their "commmunity"

An interesting part about this time of year is that the deer are a little more relaxed and not as spooky -- as in "running when they see you". Today's one of those days. How many deer are looking at you while you are checking out the cross trail?

Past studies indicated that dominant bucks created and maintained scrapes year round.
These same studies demonstrated that yearlings and 2½-year-old bucks rarely mark scrapes, and that they only do so later in the season. They found that subordinate bucks may rub on branches hanging over a scrape, but rarely paw the ground or urinate in the scrape. Studies showed that only one buck worked a particular scrape, and older bucks would prevent younger bucks from using the scrape.
While these studies provided valuable insight about the function of scrapes, researchers used penned deer instead of wild ones, and only observed the animals during daylight. A truly accurate picture of scrape behavior was needed.

Justcouple articles I was able to come up with; Other studies have shown that deer, predominately the alpha buck will create the scrapes, and leave no scent to see who is visiting the site. Later in the season, especially in pre-breading they will mark these scrapes heavily.

But you dont have to take my word for it

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

Dude , what is your major malfunction? I have a mossberg 500. If the safety is on, the sfatey is on, no matter how many times you pull the trigger. Never hear of cocking a pump, or blow back, other than whats coming out of your mouth every time you try to contradict my posts. Get you a Mossberg, or borrow a buddies, put the safety on, and pull the trigger a hundred times...same action...the sound of you pulling the trigger making a clicking sound...hence my knickname. Go find someone in the Junior forums to try and nitpick, or please, just dont bother reading mine at all. I have ben nunting for 25 years, and never met someone who wanted to waste their time disecting someones post like you do.

Are you married,? got a girlfriend? how about any friend you can just call and give a hard time to!

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

I've owned a Mossberg, years ago. I know how a gun works and what sounds they make. My mission is complete "Click".[8D][8D][8D]

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

If you "once" owned a mossberg 500 It would definately be a blunder to say that the safety came off after pulling on it 3-4 times. Might want to call mossberg. The name "click" wasnt my decision, it was my friend who was watching me try and shoot the frickin turkey with a loadedshotgun with the safety on. I actually only pulled the trigger 3 times before the bird was in flight and I hit myself in the head for not switching the safety off. We just happened to be crossing a creek and climbing a steep incline with rocks and mud. I was merely practicing safe hunting by applying the safety

If you want his number to have your beef with him, I will giveit you for confirmationnumber. Just dont ever consider my postings "squirrely" It tends to make me believe that you are accusing me of fabricating a story. I dont need to do that here, or anywhere else for that matter.

You dont know me from Joe Blow, so dont be condecending to me in the slightest bit.

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

I have to ask.....

WHY would you make a mock scrape at this time of the year. What is your goal in doing so?

Thanks.

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

Jeff,

Im not kidding you, Im not trying to make you believe something that I have not witnessed myself, not including the two other people with me that witnessed this scrape. I did not make this scrape, nor was I interested in making such a scrape, as I was carrying a ladder, straps, etc for putting up a stand.

This scrape ws in the vicinity of a scrape we witnessed in the area last year...hence me wanting to put a stand near here. This scrape was freshly turned over, and there was deer feces covering a dinner plate size portion of the scrape. The licking branch above was recently used, etc.

I am not for making mock scrapes, and I guess I need to travel back to the area and take pictures of the scrape. I had two of my buddies with me, and I bent over to see how fresh the droppings were, and they were not dried, but rather fresh (squeezed with fingers, and they were done that day or the previous evening.

I was told that they will frequent last year scrape, and even does will use them as communty scrapes.

As a matter of fact when I found this scrape, I posted it on here and this was one of the replies I got. I will research this as I am gaining nothing by making myself look like a prankster!

Look forward to getting some good pictures, however its been raining cats and dogs since around midnight last night.

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

I was just going off what you said.

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

HALO drop in! Jump from 10000 feet and open chute a 300. They'll never see you coming and you might get your shot on the way down! Not knowing the property and just looking at the photos, I would say have a stand in the South corner of the alfalfa/clover field and be ready in the afternoon.

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

Yes I did say that. After setting up the stand, and knowing there was one active scrape, we decided to use a couple mock scrape to see if we had any visitors. I read where you can start a scrape this early (do not apply scent of any kind), and recheck it later to see if any other deer had visited it. Towards the breeding season, start applying your scent to see what the scrape will bring in. The key is to have the scrape scent free to see if it will be used as a cuommunity scrape, or what and when a deer decided to start using it for scent dispersal.

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

Now go back and read the info. you provided on who (which deer) is making and using these scrapes.....and then come back and tell me WHY you made the scrapes.

I'm just curious.

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

Creating Mock Scrapes by Bryan "CornFed" Anderson

When To Begin Creating Mock Scrapes

Another thing I don't think a lot of folks realize is that one of the best times for mock scrape creating and hunting is early. In fact, I've found that many hunters don't even consider "scrape hunting" as a tactic until way latter in the season. I've consistently seen results much earlier in the season then most hunters assume. I've found that mock scrapes can be made even before the bucks loose their velvet. Obviously at this time the mock scrape isn't much more than a licking branch but it can be very effective. This scrape will become much like a community gathering point for bucks and even does. As the season wears on and bucks loose their velvet some become very aggressive at these sites while others still continue to utilize the scrapes but never really get aggressive…. Scrape the area with your scent free boot until it is clean of debris. This area should not be large, less than 24 inches across. This will certainly get the deer’s attention. Make sure that there is a licking branch directly over the scrape.



Make your own Deer Scrape
Keith Warren
Next, take a good look at your mock scrape and then leave for a couple of days. Because when you return, you will notice you have created an area that deer simply can’t resist visiting.

I have used this technique for years and been able to get some incredible results and it doesn’t take long to work. The best part is, when the first buck uses the mock scrape it becomes a real scrape. You can learn a lot from a dog, as long as you are almost as smart as he is and be willing to learn.

[align=center]"Creating Your Own Early Scrape" by John Kasun[/align][align=center][/align]
Every bow hunter knows the importance of finding a hot scrape. The only thing better than simply finding a hot scrape is being able to predict where it is going to appear. Sound impossible, not really according to Mark Wiser, President of MDR Outdoor Group and developer of 24Seven time-released, granular big game scents.
"It is a misconception that each scrape is used by a single deer," explained Wiser. "Scrapes are like a community mail box. Deer visit them to check who was there and leave their own sign in the form of scent both on the ground and on the overhanging branches. Overhanging branches are a critical component of scrapes as this is where the deer deposit scent from their pre-orbital and forehead glands."
"While hunting natural scrapes can be productive it is often unpredictable," said Wiser. "Natural scrapes can be difficult to find and they may occur in areas which are not open to hunting. The ideal situation is to stimulate scrape activity within the area you are hunting and the way to do that is start your own scrapes and encourage the deer to take them over."
"I have found that early July to mid August is the ideal time to made scrapes in your hunting area," Wiser continued. "The first consideration is location. Your scrapes should be placed near areas in which you found scrapes last season, near trails or funnels and along the edges of bedding areas. Find a location near an overhanging branch that is about 4 feet off of the ground. If no overhanging branch is available in the area you selected it is acceptable to bend a higher branch over and tie it down so it hangs unobstructed over the scrape. Be sure when tying the branch down that the rope does not interfere with the deer's access to the scrape. Thicker overhanging branches seem to produce better results with three quarters of an inch being the maximum. Clear an area under the overhanging branch about two to three feet in diameter down to the bare ground clearing it of all grass, leaves or other debris. Do not scent the scrape in any way at this time; that comes a little later."
Although you can make several scrapes within a given areas the number depends upon the size of the area and the number of suitable locations," cautioned Wiser. "By preparing these scrapes in July-August we have several weeks for the human scent to disperse before we made our first scent application. About one month before the season apply scent to the scrape or scrapes. Check the scrape every three to five days for any signs of activity.. As soon as you see buck activity on the scrape back off. Do not apply any more scent."
"What has happened is that the deer in any area have discovered a "new guy on the block" and are leaving their scent in the scrape to tell him who is boss," explained Wiser. "They are interested and will take over the scrape as their own but if you continue to apply scent the other deer will simply accept the "new guy" and activity may cease. Wait until one week before the season and reapply your scent of choice. Refreshen the scrape with your scent of choice every three to four days and the especially the day before you plan to hunt it. What you will have done is created the illusion that "he's back" and deer activity over the scrape will increase giving you're the opportunity for a shot."
After locating the site in which you intend to make your scrape, the first step is to clear all debris including leaves and grass. The scrape must be down to bare earth and the deal size approximately two feet square.
Here Mark Wiser, President of MDR Outdoor Group and developer of 24Seven Plus time-released solid big game scents is shown preparing the early scrape. These early scrapes should be prepared fromJuly to mid August. The scrapes will not have scent applied until several weeks before the season. By making the scrape early, we allow time for human scent to disappear and the deer to become familiar with the scrape.

About the author[/b]
John Kasun is an active outdoor writer, photographer and seminar speaker and is a member of both the Pennsylvania Outdoor Writers Association and The Outdoor Writers Association of America.
John is active in all aspects of the outdoors but he specializes in hunting whitetail with bow and muzzleloader. John takes his hunting seriously and to date has taken over 100 whitetail with the bow. John is both a skilled bow technician and an accomplished target shooter. John believes attention to detail is the key to hunting success and he readily shares his knowledge with his readers and seminar audiences in clear simple easy to understand terms based upon his personal in the field experience.
[align=center]John's articles and photographs have appeared in various outdoor publications. He is a regular contributor and columnist for several publications and his work has appeared in numerous publications such as: ArrowTrade, Pennsylvania Sportsmen, New York Outdoor Times, West Virginia Outdoor Times, Ohio Outdoor Times, Pennsylvania Outdoor Times, Pennsylvania Outdoor News, Keystone Sportsman, Pennsylvania Game News, New England Outdoor Times, Wheelin' Sportsmen, Westsylvania, The Paper Horse, Muzzleloader, Muzzle Blast, Centre Daily Times, Johnstown Tribune Democrat, and the Altoona Mirror to mention just a few[/align]

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

I have seen scrapes worked every month of the year but may and june...and I am sure it happens sometimes then too, just havent seen it. I sometimes make mock scrapes in august but never havetried them earlier.

I would probably take the bootleg route - any other way (incuding from the southwest) would likely take you too near what you lable as a bedding area.

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

FIRST of all.....Everything you're citing is talking about the early SEASON. It's July.;)

Second of all....read this excerpt from one of your previous posts. If this is true (and the reason I asked my original question)...WHAT are you hoping to accomplish by making a scrape this early in the SUMMER (notice I didn't say "season")?

Also....this next excerpt is total bunk. I watched 4 bucks work the same scrape (none older than 1.5yrs....and one was a BB who had to stand on his hind legs to get to the licking branch) in an hour's time....and they ALL pawed the ground and worked the licking branch.

The underlined part is particularly misleading.

So again I ask (reading below).....IF the "alpha" buck is making scrapes in an area.....what do you think he thinks of YOUR scrapes? WHY are you making them? That's the original question I asked you.

I'm trying to see if others will chime in and teach me something....or if you can/will.

Thanks.

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

In the article by John Kasun he mentioned early as being ""I have found that early July to mid August is the ideal time to made scrapes in your hunting area,"

Im interested in the others who visit the site (via trailcam)

Im speaking of a non-scented scrape. one to scent later in the year to see if any younger bucks take advantage of the "non-scent" and make the first scent.

Also....this next excerpt is total bunk. I watched 4 bucks work the same scrape (none older than 1.5yrs....and one was a BB who had to stand on his hind legs to get to the licking branch) in an hour's time....and they ALL pawed the ground and worked the licking branch.

The underlined part is particularly misleading.

So again I ask (reading below).....IF the "alpha" buck is making scrapes in an area.....what do you think he thinks of YOUR scrapes? WHY are you making them? That's the original question I asked you.

I would guess that done properly, the deer will not know the difference between MY scrapes, and those created by another deer. Im hoping that by them noticing, they will assume this is a non-vacant area, and continue to visit these sights to leave their scent...possibly to attempt to show dominancy

I'm trying to see if others will chime in and teach me something....or if you can/will.

Thanks.


[/quote]

Im doing things I have never done before, so in a way Im experimenting. Definately not claiming any claims to my actions, other than to see whay happens. The articles I have read, the scrape is like an invitation to stop by and present themselves, whether dominant or not. The community scrapes are used by both doe and bucks, and by each leaving some type of scent, they are signing their name to the guest book.

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

That's interesting. I'll give him that. But if you're making it near old scrapes, as he suggests....well....nevermind.....interesting.

So you're trying to make the dominant/alpha buck think there's another dude on the block? The article I cited said that only one would use a scrape...and him being the alpha would ward off others. Are you not taking the chance that you'll ward off ALL the bucks in your area......by having them think there's a new alpha on the block? Just trying to understand the reasoning behind the action.

I agree we should try new things. If you think this will help you.....by all means go for it!

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

[/quote]

So you're trying to make the dominant/alpha buck think there's another dude on the block? The article I cited said that only one would use a scrape...and him being the alpha would ward off others. Are you not taking the chance that you'll ward off ALL the bucks in your area......by having them think there's a new alpha on the block? Just trying to understand the reasoning behind the action.

I agree we should try new things. If you think this will help you.....by all means go for it!
[/quote]

Well Im certainly not going to use the tree next to his 2 yr old scrape. Im putting one down a ridge closer to another trail, and some others throughout the 300 acres. Im hoping this will start a few of the bucks on the property to "take then over" like a dominant buck would.

Just like you said, and I've said...if it works we will all learn something new. I dont think I will be hurting anything in the least, other than moving some leaves around. Im not going to scent them until right before season, so the ones that arent "taken over" I may leave alone.

Make sense now? I know that is almost impossible with your inquisical mind, but lets just say it wont hurt anything!

TRUCE?

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

I took the day to invite JoeyG to scout some of the pieces of land. We did the perimeter of approximately 180 acres of one piece and a hundred or so of another piece. I chose to take him to my hidden golden spot with the FRESH SCRAPES I mentioned before. Of course they were still there, and recently visited again, and within a dozen or so yards yet another fresh scrape showed up.

The feces was there, and licking branch chewed on probably yesterday, so how are you going to call bullhockey to both of us who saw it? I didnt have the camera with me, as it was 100 degrees and the machete and binocs were enough to carry, but I will take a picture of the scrape with fresh steaming plops...just for you DavidMil.

The scrapes are within 30-40 yards of bedding along a field. We got a chance to see some promising deer sign, trails, and tracks...and also lost yet another camera to some numbnut theif.

I look foward to watching you put that foot with bullhockey all over the sole...right in your mouth!

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

Hoyt, (by the way what is Horse County near?)

Here's an interesting article by a whitetail deer expert from D & DH magazine. I read it recently and have been using some if the "theories" myself this off season. While I have not seen signs of fresh active scraping I do believe bucks still do a lot of territroy marking throught the year with their orbital glands(forehead) on branchesand just plain urinating in areas they frequent they might not be tearing up the ground and trees yet(probably because of lower testosterone levels this time of year) but they are still marking. The article states that the mock scrapes made during the off season had a nearly 60% hit rate during the off season and 83% of them developed into full fledge scrapes in the fall. Pretty good odds eh. Any male animal marks his territory in some way and they do it all the time throughout the year,why would a deer be any different?? And if you can program them or help them to form habits in certain areas it is possible you might create a buck staging area where you can catch one working scrapes & rubs during the season that you created in the off season.



Springtime Signposts
[/align]
[/align][/align]Whitetails use chemical signals for communication more than visual signs and vocalizations. Glandular secretions and body odors serve better in forested cover because they can be memorized and left on objects in the woods. They can identify the maker, permit scent-matching marks and produce long-lasting messages that continue to work in the maker’s absence.

Bucks produce highly visible signposts in the form of rubs and scrapes during the breeding season. They mark overhead tree branches at other times of the year, too. But these signposts are displayed much more subtly. In fact, most marking generally goes unnoticed during the nonbreeding season because few visual signs accompany the scent-marking.(<<<<ding ding, we have a winner)

About 20 years ago, I learned bucks could easily be induced to scent-mark overhead branches and make scrapes at given locations. All that was necessary was to provide an overhead branch in the right place.
In 1988, I hung 100 limbs at likely scrape sites throughout Upper Michigan’s square-mile Cusino deer enclosure and used them to study various aspects of deer marking behavior. Sixty percent of the limbs were scent-marked before scraping started in early October. Most (83 percent) sites that were scent-marked during spring and summer developed into full-fledged scrapes during autumn.

Bucks marked the limb-tips most judiciously during May, October, and November. Although they displayed the full scrape sequence, complete with ground-pawing and urination, in autumn, they seldom pawed the sites in spring. Generally, the only evidence left in May was a few hairs stuck to the limb tip and a greasy appearance of the rubbed limb tip.

Wherever deer have separate winter and summer ranges, as occurs on Northern range, I believe scent-marking in spring helps bucks reclaim their familiar summering grounds. It also probably intimidates pregnant does, causing them to seek other areas for fawn-rearing.

Whatever its cause and function, springtime scent-marking at scrapes is a good indication that some of the local bucks survived the previous hunting season and winter. Use of automatic cameras at these sites will help to identify the markers and readers — and I’ll wager you capture far more images of bucks than does.

— John J. Ozoga, D&DH Research Editor
[/align]

RE: Which way would you go in?
 

Im about half way between Richmond and Charlottesville. Im in western Hanover, a mile from Louisa, and a mile from Goochland. There are 5 equestrian centers within 3 miles of my property, and we own 2 quarter horses that we board at our neighbors (Rockville Equestrian).